Hi, I recently bought a Kenmore KTR2300 automatic bread maker and I have a few concerns. My reason for buying it was to hopefully make bread consistantly, that was cheaper than 'store bought' bread but more importantly, healthier. I don't want hydrogenated oils, salt, sugar, eggs or any other ingredients that are not necessary fur making bread, which I can then use for sandwiches. I want to use 100% whole wheat flower.
The recipe book that cam with the unit has a whole wheat recipe which I have tried. But, I have calculated that a single slice of sandwich size bread, using this recipe, will be about double the calories of the normal 90-100 calories per slice 'store bought' bread that I normally buy. This doesn't seem right to me.
Can you advise me of a simple recipe for making 100 percent whole wheat bread with as little extra ingredients as possible?
Also, the manual that came with the Kenmore bread maker did not mention anything about what to expect when the machine is kneading the dough. My machine seems to labor very hard at it, as though the dough is way to stiff. Is this normal, or do I have too little liquid in the mix?
Thanks in advance for any help you may have for this somewhat confused, and not terribly "handy in the kitchen" bachelor ;-)
The bread that you get at the supermarket is quite unlike to be made from
100% whole wheat flour. A loaf made with all whole wheat is usually like a brick. I can't image that you could get good results in a bread machine. It isn't surprising that the machine labors considering how stiff dough made with 100% whole wheat is. I would recommend that you try posting over at alt.bread.recipes. That group seems to be focused on bread machine recipes. You also might do a search of that group's archives here looking whole wheat recipes:
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advice would be to use at least 50% unbleached AP flour, preferable highgluten bread flour instead of 100% whole wheat flour. I would also consideradding a little canola or olive oil.
A whole wheat loaf without sugar or other food for the yeast will be a dense loaf and, unless sliced thin will indeed be more calories, simply because it has far less gas or air bubble holes in it.
Search for and download other bread machine manuals, such as the Black and Decker manuals that are available on the web and look at their recipes as well - there are lots of Whole Wheat recipes available for both US and Canadian wheats [and they are NOT the same].
It sounds like you are trying to make a whole wheat bread without any white flour, any sugar, any salt, or any fat. The general minimum you need for a whole wheat bread likely will be:
A liquid. Milk, Water, Buttermilk, or water with dry milk or dry buttermilk all work.
Some amount of Whole Wheat BREAD flour, or a mixture of Whole Wheat non-bread flour and a white BREAD flour, or a mixture of Whole Wheat non-bread flour AND VWG or 80% Gluten Wheat [the latter seems to be available in Canada only].
Some form of sweetener that the yeast can feast on. Honey, Molasses, Corn Syrup, Sugar or other similar foods
Some salt. Generally the salt will be between .5 and .1 times the amount of sugar
Some fat. It can be Safflower Oil, Olive Oil, Butter, Margarine, but some fat is needed.
Yeast - the amount depends on the type of yeast.
Eggs are not needed, but some egg white from a carton of egg white will not hurt and can replace some of the other liquid used. It adds protein and some structure to the bread and does NOT add the stuff in the yolk that you likely view as unhealthy.
You need to develop a feel for what the dough should feel like.
It does sound as if you do NOT have enough liquid in the recipe. Whole Wheat flour usually needs MORE liquid than white flour because it absorbs more liquid per gram of flour.
Whole Wheat never rises as much as white flour, so you will end up with a more dense loaf.
If you wait until it cools fully you should be able to slice it in .1666 or .2 inch thick slices and therefore cut down on the calories per slice, but you will always find it is more dense than what you buy, so it WILL be heavier if cut to the same thickness as the stuff you buy. Heavier slices are more calories for obvious reasons.
Follow a recipe in the book exactly or download one where everything is measured only by WEIGHT and make that one or two times, without playing the games of eliminating ingredients to make it healthier. Get to know what the machine will sound like if you are following THEIR instructions and you will then know if it sounds like it is struggling with the dough you are now playing with. Only when you know what the machine should sound like and what a loaf should look like should you being experimenting with your own cut down version of a recipe.
FWIW
RsH
---------------- >I recently bought a Kenmore KTR2300 automatic bread maker and I have a
======================================================= Copyright retained. My opinions - no one else's... If this is illegal where you are, do not read it!
What is the purpose of Milk? Is it to help the bread rise or is it just for flavor?
What is the purpose of salt? Is it for texture or just flavor?
What is the purpose of fat? Is it for texture or flavor or something else I am unaware of?
You also mentioned that the bread I buy at the store is likely not 100 percent whole wheat. It says "100 percent Stone Ground Whole Wheat". Does this mean 100 percent whole wheat or just that it is 100 percent stone ground? The wording used could be taken either way.
It affects the structure of the bread, but it is NOT needed. You could use water instead, or juice or beer or another liquid. Milk simply makes, usually, for a different and smoother sort of crumb in the finished bread.
Neither, it is needed to help control the action of the yeast. It is NOT for flavour or texture. I make a Challah with 50 grams of sugar and only 8 grams of salt, and other breads with as little as 4 to 5 grams of salt. It varies, but I always have some salt in the mix.
It helps preserve the bread a bit, helps hold the moisture in the flour, and makes the baked bread last longer and not dry out in only a few hours. It is a variable and you can use more or less depending on the particular bread's formula.
It is likely 100% whole wheat, but also look at all of the other ingredients that are in the bread and keep in mind that they might still be playing around with the type of whole wheat used in the grind to give them results you cannot get with what you can buy. You are trying to do without the other components that the baker has added to get the light loaf that you buy in the store. That lightness comes not from the flour alone but from all of the ingredients combined, plus the technique used. Note that all of the work done in a bakery is by weight and NOT by volume. A bakery that purchases Whole Wheat can still have less bran or require a harder wheat than the manufacturer of your whole wheat uses or produces, even if you buy the same brand. This is because the retail and baker flours can be different even if they seem to have the same general description.
Another trick that I did not mention, that likely will help you is to turn the machine OFF after the kneading finishes, if making whole wheat, and then turning it on again to make start from the beginning. Kneading whole wheat flour the extra time often helps make for a lighter bread and higher rise.
I suggest putting the ingredients into the machine in the listed order, and then letting the mix sit for a while before you even turn on the machine, so that most of the flour absorbs water before you even start the machine kneading. Put in the yeast just as you start that first knead.
Using the regular bread cycle, turn on the machine, and let it finish the first knead. Turn off or unplug the machine and immediately plug it in and/or start it again for a second go round. Note that the liquids weigh almost as much as the flour when you add them all together. The bran in the flour absorbs a lot of the liquid and the gluten also needs a lot of the liquid.
Let us all know how this recipe compares to what you were trying, and also let us know how it turns out.
Once you have used this recipe, which comes from Electric Bread, published in 1993, if it comes out sort of the way you expected or like, you can start playing around with the formula, seeing what happens if you reduce or eliminate the salt, or the fat, or the sugars, etc. Remove only one at a time to see the specific impact and you will get a better idea of what each ingredient contributes to the end result. You may like to use brown sugar instead of molasses or honey, for example. Just use the same weight of the substitute until you have a better feel for the way they interact. You can replace the powdered skim milk powder with the same weight of dry buttermilk and it will have little impact on the crumb but a small impact on the taste. You may like that better, and remember that buttermilk is also almost fat free. You may also try regular whole wheat flour and, if so, you may find that you need to add another 5-10 grams of VWG or Gluten Wheat to get the same amount of rise.
Your experience will vary. One other thing no one likely asked is what altitude you live at. If you are in Salt Lake City you are at about
4400 feet above sea level and in Denver you are at about 5200 feet up, and you need to make adjustments. If you live in Mexico City the adjustments are even greater, because at over 7500 feet up you are that much higher in elevation above sea level. It makes a difference! Look up high altitude baking if you are anywhere over about 1500 feet above sea level.
Also, if you live in a very dry area, such as Phoenix, you also need to watch the liquids and likely need to always add more to any formula. If you live in Gander, Newfoundland, it is the other way around, and you likely need to always cut down a little on the amount of liquids, because your flour has already absorbed quite a bit of moisture simply from the perpetually damp atmosphere. Again, without knowing where you are, I cannot be more exact, but baking is NOT a precise science, and some of the reasons are just these... elevation and humidity make a difference!
FWIW
RsH
======================================================= Copyright retained. My opinions - no one else's... If this is illegal where you are, do not read it!
Thanks again RsH. Your information is much appreciated. In fact, I do live at 5400 feet so I will search for info on high altitude baking. When it comes to cooking I had thought that altitude only affected boiling water temperatures. I have a lot to learn I guess. Thanks! Greg
Reduce yeast 1 gram at a time until you find the correct amount to use. You cannot use the same amount someone at sea level uses. Lower atmospheric pressure means the bread rises higher as there is less resistance when gas is produced. If it rises too high, it collapses as you bake it!
Reduce liquid SLIGHTLY until you find the correct amount to use. Whatever that percentage reduction is becomes your starting point for future recipes as a percentage reduction re liquids.
Find flour with the finest grind you can. Courser flour does not work as well at altitude.
There are other tricks re higher altitude as well...
======================================================= Copyright retained. My opinions - no one else's... If this is illegal where you are, do not read it!
I make WW bread in my bread machine (well, I make the dough but bake the loaves normally). I substitute in a very generous spoon of vital wheat gluten into the measuring cup when measuring in the WW flour.
Here are the ingredients (as best I can remember) for the WW plus extras recipe I'm using these days:
1 cup water
1 egg
1/2 cup vital wheat gluten
2 cups WW flour
1/2 cup mixed multi-grain add-ins (including seeds)
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2 Tablespoons oil
2 Tablespoons honey
2 teaspoons yeast
I think that's it. Makes a nice big loaf in a pan or round on a baking stone. Made little round rolls on the stone once, too.
Sorry, I don't know anything about bread machines but I do make 100% whole wheat bread from time to time with some success. It is usually on the dense side but this formula is useable. You can use the ratios to get the amount you need for your machine. This makes two normal pan loaves in the oven.
1 lb. 10 oz. whole wheat flour
1/2 oz. salt
1 oz. sugar
1 oz. dry milk
1 oz. oil or shortening
3/4 oz. fresh yeast (you might try 1 to 1 1/2 packets of dry yeast. I never use it personally.)
1 lb. water
The hydration ratio is 61% which is a medium soft dough. I have no problem mixing it in the mixer. Whole wheat four doesn't have much gluten so good results require a long mix - 15 to 20 minutes - and a long fermentation and proofing. That's probably why you can't get get good results in a machine where these variables aren't adjustable. You might be able to get around the fermentation issue by using more yeast than normal. If the machine allows you to adjust the mixing time then crank that up to the max.
It will probably be easier for you to substitute high gluten white flour for
1/2 the wheat flour. It won't add any fat really but the resulting bread will be chewier and less dense. Good luck.
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
On UK radio recently they had the results of a nationwide survey into the top ten most "unused" gadgets purchased.The kind of things that seem a good idea in the shop but then sit on a shelf in your cupboard for a couple of years before being given away to a duistant aunt.
I ought to point out that Bread making machines were in the top 5! BTW No1 was the footspa.
Tregaque
-- Tregaque
Rare vintage Gardening, Cooking and Craft Books from Wales @
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