Home Stand Mixers

I have a KA (bowl lift) that's 25 years old or so - when they were still made by Hobart. It's a champ. I use the grinder attachment a couple four times a year, maybe.

I see Emerill is now using the Viking mixer... last year he didn't have nice things to say about KA (which I own).

$400 plus category evidently.

On the other hand, I remember Emerill and Bobby Flay trying to wrestle the bowl out of a Viking Mixer so they could get something they'd beaten out of it. In the end, they picked up the mixer and tilted it so they could pour/scrape the contents out of the bowl.

At this point, I'm not any more impressed with Viking than I am with a KitchenAid. (I've had a K45SS sunce 1978 or so, and am very happy with it.)

Mike

More than likely, Emerill, BF, and others are probably paid generous endorsement fees to use the various products they use on their shows. That'd be my guess anywhoo.

Sky

After 30+ years of use, I would again buy a Bosch. Ease of adding during the mixing cycle is a big plus. It has also kneaded a lot of bread. Norvin

When I originally sent this message I think I clicked on "Reply" rather than "Group Reply" so I'll try again.

I was reading the reviews for KA on amazon.com and mostly they were averaging 4 to 4 1/2 stars. But there were some very unhappy people who noted a decline in quality since Hobart sold out to Whirlpool. One reviewer mentioned the use of plastic gears instead of metal. Others were unhappy that the mixer turned off for a few minutes while kneading when it got over-heated. I believe KA starts off with a 300 watt motor for the less expensive models. Viking has 800 watts. The link given for the Viking on Ebay is up to $400 and it's used. New Vikings on Amazon start around $500 plus. There's no doubt that Viking is the stronger machine. But is it worth twice the price of a KA? Costco is selling the KA Professional HD model for $269. (I would take the use of the word "professional" with many grains of salt.) However, on the box they proudly announce that the "professional" model has direct-drive all steel gear transmission and a 475 watt motor - which should be able to serve most people's needs. So I bought one. If I'm not happy with it, Costco will take it back and give me a refund. Frank

> $400 plus category evidently.>

Hobart used A plastic gear also. It is in there so the people who don't read the manual will strip a cheap gear instead of burning out an expensive motor.

Actually, there is reason to wonder.

A big grain of salt.

For some time, I owned a bakery. We had a Hobart 30 quart mixer. We bought it used, and it was probably older than I am. We won't go too far into how old I am, but I am certainly old enough to drink legally... and a good bit more.

It had a 275 watt motor in it. I routinely mixed 10 pounds of bagels or 25 pounds of bread dough in it. One batch after another. For about 5 to 8 hours a day. It ran very nicely.

So, why does a home mixer, intended to mix just a few pounds of bread dough need an 800 watt motor?

The key difference is simple. The professional mixer has a transmission in it. The motor runs at an optimum speed and the gears change the speed of the mixing action.

The home mixer uses a variable speed electric motor. When mixing dough, it is being asked to deliver high torque at low speeds. Which electric motors don't like to do. This provides strain throughout the drive train.

A professional mixer comes with a chart that tells you what your load limits are, in pounds of product, by product type, and includes limits on doughs, such as the flour type and hydration. You can make a lot of cake batter, less bread dough, and much less pizza dough or bagel dough. My ancient 30 quart mixer could make about 44% as much pizza dough as bread dough.

KitchenAid says it has X cups of "flour power" They do tell you to reduce the load of the mixer when using whole grain flours, as they are harder to mix. They don't mention hydration in their documentation.

My ancient KitchenAid's manual has a warning that you should let the mixer cool off for 45 minutes after mixing two batches of bread dough back to back. I recently asked KitchenAid if ANY of their mixers at any price could be used to produce back to back batches of dough all day long. The answer was, no. I do not know why they can call any of their mixers professional or commercial when they can not tolerate a professional or commercial workload.

I haven't seen a Viking's instruction manual, but it faces the same fundamental limitation as the KitchenAid, a variable speed motor. It is an inapporopriate design choice if you are going to be making lots of bread. In one of these forums, someone complained that her KitchenAid died on her. She was on her 4th batch of whole wheat bread. And each batch was a serious overload of the mixer - if she'd been using white flour. Is it the mixer's fault she didn't read the manual? No.. but the mixer was still not the best tool for the job. If you have a home mixer, regardless of brand, you need to read the manual and be aware of its limitations.

Hobart, among others, make professional mixers in sizes suitable for home use.

Another option that is frequently mentioned is the Bosch mixer. I owned one for a while and sold it on eBay. I found the beaters too fragile for real world use, and the dough hook heated the dough too much. Neither my employees nor I liked it.

I've played with a Magix Mill/Electrolux Assistent once and it seems a better design than the Bosch, but you are paying a good bit more. I'd rather play with a mixer a lot longer before recommending it, though a friend who's judgement I trust strongly prefers the Electrolux, and she owns both.

Any tool has to be selected with an eye towards what you are going to use it for. If you are beating egg whites and making cakes, a KitchenAid is a great choice. After all these years, I still like my KitchenAid. If you're doing lots of bread, neither it - nor any machine with a variable speed motor - is likely to be a good choice. Especially if you are making whole grain or denser breads.

Mike

As Mike Avery pointed out, home mixers do have there limits. KA gives the following maximums for all purpose and whole wheat flour:

5 quart mixer: 12 cups ap max/6 cups ww max 6quart mixer: 14 cups ap max/8 cups ww max

Question: was that a single-phase motor or a three-phase motor? Many commercial units have the advantage of 3-phase power, which allows a much more efficient motor design. It is generally impossible to get

3-phase power in a residential structure unless you install your own converter (formerly a rotary unit, although I understand solid state systems are now available) which wastes a lot of electricity.

Steven

You're right, that wasn't comparing apples to apples. It was a

3-phase motor. I just went to the Hobart web page to look at the current 30 quart mixers... they are a lot nicer than the antique I had. The motor I had was about a 1 amp motor, and looking at today's Hobart motor specs, the single phase motor would have been about 700 watts. And I was able to mix about 25 loaves worth of bread with it, back to back batches, for as much as 5 to 8 hours a day.

The current top of the line KitchenAid, the Professional 600 Series, has a 575 watt motor, and it can mix up to about a 6.5 pound batrch of dough, but may not be used for more than two batches in a row. The difference remains in two factors. One is the motor in the Hobart is a single phase motor and a transmission that lets it run at its optimum speed. The other is build quality. However, I don't think any build quality is going to overcome the inherent weakness of a variable speed motor being asked to deliver high torque at low speeds.

I see a lot of talk about 3-phase in the professional bakers mailing lists I'm on. It seems to run somewhere between 5 and 15 thousand dollars to run three phase into a building, if the three-phase is already available in the area, which it usually is not in residential areas.

On the 30 quart mixer front, a 3/4 hp motor can draw anywhere from

11.6 amps on a 115v single phase circuit down to 1 amp on a 460 volt three phase circuit. The advantage of the adapter is in saving the installation costs of the three phase. We got a used motor rotary unit for about $250. Solid state units are quieter, don't require lubrication and are more reliable. The other advantage of three phase is that there are lots and lots of used three phase equipment on the market for a song. Single phase is much harder to find, and more expensive.

Mike

How did you arive at those numbers, Mike? The 11.6 A looks like a startup surge at 115 V. 1 Amp at 460 3-phase is about right, if I remember my

3-phase math correctly(!). (1 A per phase times 460 = 1380 VA, divided by sqrt(3) = 796 VA, not unreasonable for a 3/4 Hp (output) motor.

There are inexpensive ways of building a rotary converter for small (say under 1 or 2 Hp) loads. Basically, a used 3-ph motor of several times higher power rating, and a motor-run capacitor to self-excite one phase. It will start by itself and provide 3-phase output from a single phase line. Does need occasional lube, though...

Dave

Those are the ratings from the Hobart web page for a current D300 mixer. It seemed high to me too, but I'd rather let them make the mistake than me.

points to a page at Hobart's web page. Halfway down or so there is information about spec sheets. That opens aPDF file.

Mike