kaiser rolls recipe any good?

I forgot to mentione i couldnt see wasting the fill amount so i cut the ingredients in half so if it failed i only wsted half.....

1 tablespoons active dry yeast 1/2 tablespoon white sugar 1 1/4 cups warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C) 1 tablespoons shortening 1 teaspoons salt 3 1/2 cups bread flour 2 egg whites, stiffly beaten 1/2 tablespoon cold milk 1 egg white 1 cup ice cubes

*RECIPE SNIPPED*

When dough starts acting like that the only thing you can do is walk away from it for about 15 minutes and let the dough relax. The more you try to stretch it the more it's going to spring back. After 15 minutes try stretching the dough again. If it starts to spring back STOP and walk away for another 10 minutes.

Im not sure how the dough even got like that. I was very careful to make sure i didnt overknead it. Even my worst attempt at pizza dough when i first started baking never pulled like that. Is this typical of this type of dough or are there ingredients in the recipe that should be measured with utmost care to help avoid this situation?

Not that im really that experienced with baking, but i have had a bunch of successful attempts with other recipes. At this point i would say my biggest issue is getting the dough just right. I have yet to have that eureka moment with knowing when i have the correct flour/liquid ratio. I usually end up to dry or too wet.

Thanks djs0302

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

A lot of this depends on what kind of bread you are seeking to make...if it is a lean, artisan type bread, with a wide open, holey and glossy interior, they you want *very* slack dough. If you want close texture and crumb for something like a sandwich bread, you'll have a more firm dough than for lean breads and perhaps fats, milk or eggs for richer doughs.

I do a lot of bread baking without recipes and much of what I mix up is by feel. There are a lot of home bakers who are not comfortable with that and surely for some specific recipe, if the recipe provider does not give you a clue as to how the dough should feel as you go along, it can be tricky if you don't have a lot of experience under your belt.

Google yourself some past posts from alt.bread.recipes, hang around there reading things and also check out their FAQ, which is still a work in progress - a good one always is - and see if you can find yourself some answers to your questions overall. They are a good and helpful group over there, but do some reading before you chime in and I bet you'll find many of your questions already answered.

is no question, though, if you are working with a bread dough inshaping and it is springing back at you, the advice given to you by anOP is correct. Just walk away and let the dough relax enough so thatit does not fight you. (cover the dough so it does not dry out) There are some wonderful techniques to learn...how to avoid kneading and rely instead on a simple technique called "stretch and fold," finding out how you can deepen the flavor of your breads with a pre-ferment, how to handle sloppy, high hydration doughs, baking at high temps, etc.

There are a gazillion web pages on the net that will help you with baking. One that I like because it is so very welcoming to newbies, is this:

most important advice I can give you is to learn the basics, thentrust your heart, your hands and you eyes when you work with dough. Last night I took about a cup of active sourdough starter, mixed it with a cup of flour & enough water so that it resembled very thick batter, and let that ferment overnight. This morning, I put it into the mixer, added white flour, whole wheat, dark rye, spelt, flax seeds and steel cut oats, enough water to make a soft and sticky dough, (you touch it and it sticks to your finger), and left it to sit for 20 minutes (look up "autolyse," where you give the flour and water mix a chance to rest, allow the flour to absorb the water and the gluten to begin forming), then went back and added my salt, let the mixer run just a bit to incorporate, and then put the gooey dough into an oiled bowl. I will let it sit a bit, then stretch and fold the dough a few times and then let it rise, take it out and form it into loaves for anotherrise, then bake. You needn't have the dough in a bowl for stretch and fold, many/most do it on a board or cloth. I have played with doughs enough to keep it in the bowl and do this.

Best advice? Have fun and experiment. Flour and water are cheap, and so is yeast if you buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer (it keeps for ages!) Read a few books, such as Peter Reinhart's "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" and Jeffrey Hamelman's "Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes" and you will lean a lot and have some fun while you're learning, too. Check your library or used books sites online for help.

There is no "one true path" to making bread. Read up, study, practice and find what works best for you, your kitchen, the flours/grains you prefer, your climate, etc...you will never find a cheaper hobby, and one that can be nourishing and fun, too.

Boron

Boron thanks for the very helpful post....maybe i shouldnt have tossed the dough....dam. I felt very confident about this past time because the dough had just enough spring for me doing a knuckle test prior to the first rise. After second rise is when i had the problem, i couldnt get the dough to roll out for roll shaping and it stuck pretty good to everything it came in contact with.

I think im going to start my next try just making a basic french bread. Just plain old yeast, salt, and water nothing like fats to change the texture and make me second guess my heart.

Thanks!

Bor>

With yeast doughs it's almost impossible to overknead them if you're kneading them by hand. Pie crust dough and biscuit dough are different. Those are the things you have to be careful not to overknead. I'm guessing you didn't let the dough proof (rise) long enough before trying to shape the rolls. Also, after you punch the dough down the second time and divide the dough up into the 16 pieces, let the pieces of dough rest a few minutes before trying to roll them out into the circles.

Thats very possible djs, i was more concerned about kneading as the problem than proofing.

I followed boron elgars advice and went to freshloaf. I found useful info there as well as the newcomer lessons. I decided to go back to basics and try the first lesson. The dough this time showed the same signs of pulling back even before i really got into the kneading. I made two alterations though, first i used bread dough instead of AP and second i let it rise a second time before the final shape and rise. The dough was much more pliable at that point so i will start allowing rests between major actions like kneading and shaping.

With that behind me i did have some issues with the dough being very wet. I probably added almost another half cup over the recipe and the dough was very sticky still. I was able to work with it though and wound up with a good success. Rises werent the best but i had a very nice oven spring and the ffinal bread had nice crumb and texture. Undoubtedly my best success at artisan style bread so far.

Thanks for the help....i will keep practicing