What's your favorite cake & icing?

Hi all,

I'm taking my first Wilton cake decorating course and I'm having fun learning new things. For the course we have to make this buttercream which is mostly made up of vegetable shortening & icing sugar it's great for piping flowers & doing th boarders & of course frosting the cake. But I don't like the idea of all that shortening. Is there another icing that is good for this? What's the name so I can find a recipe?

Also for the course I've been using boxed cake mixes for the cakes, but I find that the cakes are to soft and crumbly when I have to slice them in half to make layers for the filling. What are some tasty cake that are a little more dence and not as crumbly.

Thanks in advance, Giggles

Reply to
Giggles
Loading thread data ...

I think what you sorely need as a beginner is some words of advice not new materials to play upon your fledgling capability..

There are some modification of the formulations where you can use butter and shortening blend or even other form of buttercream. where pure butter is used; but that knowldedge should be better be learned when you are already competent with your decorating ability. I would say that you better improve your skills first before you jump on more challenging materials for your icings and cakes..There is nothing wrrong with a shortening based icings if your are still developing your skills If you find that the cakes appear fragile for your icing chore; practice on a styropor cake look alike cut outs before you try on real cakes! . Once you attained the confidence and improved your skill you can then jump in doing it on real stuff! The common defect of beginners is too much initial confidence< grin>..which usually is just a flash in the pan. ..That is not good for building your skill.if you had a long term goal to be a competent cake decorator be patient . Cake decorating is one of those endeavors where patience, carefully developed skill and attentions to detail is more important than jumping from one product to another and untrammeled enthusiasm. Meanwhile ;;; Bexed cakes can be rectified by modifying the make up formulations to make it stronger for decorations I think there is book devoted to such kind of cake mix doctoring. Find it. Roy

Reply to
Roy

This site has several icing recipes.

formatting link
far as slicing cakes made from a boxed cake mix is concerned, firstmake sure the cake is completely cool, it may help if the cake isactually chilled. Second, use a serrated knife and make sure the bladeof the knife you're using is at least as long as the diameter of thecake.

Reply to
djs0302

at Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:03:17 GMT in , snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Roy) wrote :

I will voice a philosophical disagreement here. In my view limiting your initial learning to a narrow range (of materials, techniques, etc...) risks setting notions in your head that become more difficult to escape from in the long run and develops skills along a particular direction that can be very hard to undo. If we start out learning as a "blank slate" a lot of the basic structure of that slate gets set in the early phase of learning and, once it's set, is difficult to change. If that structure is set up in ways that aren't compatible with new skills or materials, then one can end up spending more time "un-learning" ideas that only work for what you learned on in order then to re-learn with whatever new concept you've introduced. So, for instance, if you were working with shortenings you might get used to certain aspects of handling properties (a good example is that they have a much wider range of working temperatures, so the priority to work fast is relaxed), then essentially expect, if not mentally then from a standpoint of instinctive physical/mechanical movements, other ingredients to behave in like manner. It could then easily become very difficult to learn how to do it right with the new one (e.g. if you then switched to butter with narrow working temperature, you might not have developed the kind of coordination or mind-set to work as fast as you need, and so all your old experience would have to be jettisoned while you figured out how to move

*quickly*).

I think it's better to experiment early and often so that you get a good broad base from the outset on the range of techniques and properties that you'd need to learn about. This also helps your creativity because you will have a much better idea of the sort of tradeoffs you're accepting in choosing one style or ingredient over another. It also often gives you a much more detailed insight into recipe choices and especially on recipe instructions, so that you can decipher what something will actually do, what results you can expect, and what is the reason for some seemingly strange or time-consuming step (or indeed, if there is no reason as often happens if someone adapts another recipe without that knowledge and blindly copies over one of the steps that only applied to a part of the recipe that's no longer being used)

Of course the downside is that you can spend more time gaining basic competence, but in the end, it's worth it because you now have much more solid skills.

As for "favourite" cake and icing, that would be easy. Check under my previous posts for Chocolate Death and you'll find the one that is *my* personal favourite.

However, for decorating, here's a recipe I posted some time back that's also delightful (for a cake flavoured with rosewater - great for weddings) and which also includes an icing recipe and a recipe for marzipan. The icing is a good one to play around with for decorating. It isn't as fluffy as a true buttercream, which IMHO is a plus - makes for a cake that isn't overloaded with heaps of fluffy frosting. Meanwhile marzipan is another decorating tool - usable for moulding shapes, or for making pre-covers (many cakes are covered initially with marzipan to give a smooth, sealed surface, then frosted), or as a covering/icing substitute in its own right (which makes an appearance somewhat similar to rolled fondant). If you don't feel up to the task of making marzipan yourself, you can, of course, always buy it.

Almond-Rose cake

2 cups white pastry flour 1 2/3 cups sugar 1/2 lb butter 5 eggs 2 oz almonds 2 tbsp rosewater 1/2 tsp salt

Preheat the oven to 350F. Thoroughly grease a tall 8" springform pan. Blanch the almonds in boiling water quickly to slip off the skins, then chop very finely. Put 2/3 cup of the sugar and the butter in a medium-sized bowl and cream well. (I use a wooden spoon and cream manually.) In a second, larger bowl, whisk the eggs with the remaining sugar until it is at least double in volume, pale lemon in color, and very foamy. Add the salt, then fold in the flour slowly. Fold in the creamed butter. Divide the batter evenly between the 2 bowls and add the chopped almonds to one and the rosewater to the other. Spoon the batters alternately into the pan. Bake for

1 1/2 hour or until the top of the cake is quite dark and a thin skewer inserted in the center comes out more or less clean. Cool the cake completely on a cooling rack.

Marzipan

1/2 lb almonds 3/4 cup caster sugar 4 tbsp butter

Blanch the almonds, removing skins, and grind (using a manual grinder - not to butter - to fine grounds) into a bowl. Melt the butter and cool until solid again. Mix the butter into the ground almonds with a spoon. Add the sugar, then mix with the same spoon, pressing down with each stroke into the mixture, until it becomes crumbly and just barely cohesive, like pasta dough. Press with the spoon very firmly into an 8" springform pan line with parchment using the spoon, and smooth the surface. As you press it in the marzipan should adhere together and assume its familiar texture. It should become very malleable and plastic enough for you to smooth the top as flat as a table. Chill in the refrigerator.

Butter Ganache Icing

12 tbsp butter 2 cups milk (I used nonfat in the event) 8 tbsp sugar 4 tbsp water (approx.)

Put the milk in a heavy saucepan, not nonstick. Heat to a simmer over medium heat, and, stirring constantly, reduce to 1/4 cup. At this point it should be very think indeed, and a tan color. This will take a long time and is very tedious - and you must keep stirring constantly, you can't leave it alone no matter how much you will want to do so 1 hour into the process or more. Set the pan, covered, in the refrigerator to cool. You can prepare this the night before, or even days before if you store the product in a sealed jar. Put the sugar in a heavy saucepan and add the water - the amount is approximate - use enough to make it just fluid without being watery, like a grainy syrup. Bring to a full boil, minimizing stirring, and cook until a candy thermometer reaches the firm-ball stage - 247 F. While the sugar cooks, scrape the now-chilled condensed milk (it will be very solid) into a medium-size bowl, leaving it refrigerated until the sugar is ready. As soon as the sugar comes to temperature, pour it over the condensed milk and begin beating with an electric mixer. Add the butter, 1/2 tbsp at a time, beating constantly with a uniform circular motion using the mixer. Once all the butter has been beaten in it should have a very definitive smooth texture just like ganache before it's firmed up. This textural transformation will happen suddenly and dramatically near the end of the process. Spread over the cake of your choice and refrigerate. Makes enough to ice a 2 layer 8" cake.

Reply to
Alex Rast

Roy - good luck and enjoy the course. There is lots to learn and it is important to practice, practice, practice. Which is what makes the buttercream with shortening feasible. It can be reused and its cheap. Real buttercream icing can be make with only butter and the one I've used also included corn syrup as I recall. It is trickier to work with though. Lots of time for that later. In the mean time, enjoy the course. Wendy

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Rast" Newsgroups: rec.food.baking To: Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:35 AM Subject: Re: What's your favorite cake & icing?

medium-sized

Reply to
Wendy

Alex Rast wrote

I think that is the reason that I found you to have limited and narrow capabilities in your craft, I t think in your formative years your are trained also in a narrow minded manner

I had experienced and seen similar individuals that have narrow range of perspective that right at the start they want to work with the best ingredient and they cannot tolerate if somebody who wants to exert development of skills first on ordinary materials before trying out different and advanced mediums. IMO You are the kind of person who has prejudice to certain materials and would not to touch it with a ten foot pole..

I would disagree on that, if you had grasped the science at the start while gradually improving your skill you will never become a fanatic of a certain medium. You are even open to cross training and multi-skilling and trying out different ways how to interpret a recipe a technique etc. . But from how I see in many of your post I presume you have a narrow scope in your training. You are just a mere tradesman . You will have difficulty seeing your craft from a higher vantage point and be able to grasp the essence of things that no matter what medium you use the principle remains the same.. I tell you as an example me , I had attended ' a sort of apprenticeship'.in my younger years in part time kitchen work( while studying in the university ) and one of my mentor/work supervisor , a highly skilled baker still drilled me on skill development even if I had already a substantial experience in baking as a kid from my mother instruction. .He believe that my skill is still not good as I cannot equally work effectively with other ingredients in the kitchen and would prefer what I am used to previously. For example; I prefer to work with butter for my croissants and disliked margarine; nor I would use shortening also in some icing preparation as I find it tasteless. He kept seeing that many of my work is not to his standard and being inflexible with ingredients is working against my skill development.

My supervisor who incidentally is also as former special forces soldier and veteran of Vietnam war( one time called me in his office) in order to enlighten me,change my mindset and therefore improved my skills and be more productive.. He told me directly Son you had talent for this craft but unfortunately your mindset is narrow which prevent you from being flexible and therefore from further improving your skill. . He tried to compare some of his previous soldiery training to bakery craft and want me to recognize the similarity. He said that as (a soldier) that in battle its not important (as there are times) you have to strictly use your service rifle you trained for to kill the enemy) but how can you effectively deliver the task your superiors have ordered you to do. . There are times that You can use an enemy's weapons to kept on fighting and defeat them with their own hardware.. As a soldier (he told me ) when you are already well trained as a fighter, you should familiarize and train also with your enemy's weaponry. That guy claimed was an expert and flexible in handling wide assorted weaponries including many small arms such as the M-16,M-14 rifles,shotguns, assorted carbines, the Chinese and Russian made AK-

47,AKM rifle the US Colt caliber 45, assorted revolvers and the communist supplied sidearms) and claimed to have used those enemy weapons in certain times. In infiltration and actual combat with the North Vietnamese Army. He emphasized what makes a special forces soldier different from a common infantryman is the deeper & wider scope of training and cross training and the ability to be not transfixed on what weapons (you are supplied with or well trained) to be successful in combat. That is one reason what makes them superior as a fighter compared to an ordinary solider Therefore he said to me: What makes a superior baker or pastry chef is to be flexible and be able to deliver what your boss wants you to do and get the job done.Be open to cross training, baking is not limited to what you see in the shops its more than that! Think about it! If you are truly skilled, it does not matter what ingredients to use a s you can get the goods done to keep your customers happy and his business prosperous . Besides there are wide range of customers and different product range. Its not the ingredients that counts but what you can make from it and what the customers wants for a certain price. . That pep talk had remained in my mind after I left that firm and transferred to a series of shops (I kept it in my mind) and made me a competent baker and a pastry chef and at the same time earning university credits as chemist, and food technologist, which I had ample time to apply such training in my succeeding employments In later life also become manufacturing confectioner by still being interested in cross training from confectionery schools. I can in equal competence work in the home kitchen and in the food research laboratory and in a industrial bakery/confectionery and even other food processing plant such as prepared mix plant to the envy of other tradesmen( including you Alex).

I don't agree with that either, I worked with wide variety of fats flours, real chocolates and compounded ones, various . sugars and other functional ingredients that only an extremely few bakers and pastry chef ever had . I can equally make assorted industrial bakery products as well as gourmet artisanal varieties . Create ,develop and formulate assorted products ranging from scratch to mixes from bakery to confectionery from the small kitchen or laboratory scale to the production batches .With these wide range of competence I did not unlearn anything , rather improved my flexibility, knowledge and market value as a professional in food processing..

I disagree on that either, In particular to this thread If I work with butter I understand its peculiarities, how it differs from pure and fractionated anhydrous milk fat,margarine and vegetable shortening. I believe A good foundation in manipulative skills honed through proper training, consistent practice and accompanied with the intimate understanding of ingredient knowledge is what all it takes. to succeed with any available materials. If you start as blank slate, its better be that your mind is not conditioned to BIAS on what is best or worse but as a professional what is beneficial to your employers business. As a trainee you have to set a long term goal and have specific objective why you train for a certain craft. That will minimize your bias against certain things If you look for it as a career then better be broadminded, but you look at its as hobby then you can (stupidly )perpetuate your prejudice against certain ingredients. A mere hobbyist is usually a fanatic due to their inflexibility with ideas and techniques.

An admonitions may not be appealing to young trainee but if she or he had specific long term goal in mind he or she should set aside what I call ' ONION SKINNED' behavior. and ego and follow the advice. The poster ( Giggles ) I presume is a neophyte in cake decorating, and therefore its her best interest for( if that what she want) her cake decorating career to be focused on acquiring sound skills first than collecting recipes which can only lead in confusion.

GET TO THE BASICS and BE GOOD AT IT AT THE START IS THE ESSENCE OF GOOD LEARNING AND INSTRUCTION in any craft including baking and other forms of cookery.

Inferior tutors try to impress the trainees with certain ingredients and recipes initially; but that does not led to good skill development at the start. They should be initiated with something which is simpler( and that is using vegetable shortening) then later when they had learned how to deal with it and be competent they can modify( the medium )add butter to it, and finally try work with real stuff( 100% butter).using different recipes. And that is the way how proper training goes, in stepwise manner and not in SPRINTS and JUMPS. Therefore I don't see anything wrong with training with shortening or cake dummy to practice one cake decorating skills. In my opinion a good baking school want their students to be well grounded on fundamentals than flooding their minds with recipes.

True competence in any field is the result of proper and sound training and not what your capricious uncultivated minds tells you to do.

Reply to
chembake

I'm sorry if my comments rubbed you the wrong way. Please understand that I wasn't trying to make a personal attack or to dismiss the value of your opinions. In fact, that's why I called it a "philosophical" disagreement. In other words, what I meant to say is that my comments were open for debate and certainly not to be taken as gospel but rather just a different point of view.

However, that wasn't my position. In fact, that was rather the reverse of what I was trying to say because if you were to do that you would simply be limiting yourself to a different skill set. My thinking, however, is more experimental - i.e try a lot of different ideas with many different methods, materials, ratios, etc. Now, in this approach you'll get a lot of disasters, that much is certainly true. And you would need to be willing to accept the possibility of disaster at the outset - i.e. instead of going for a steady build-up of successes, you accept failure as part of the learning process. But in so doing you will learn the underlying reasons

*why* something is done in such-and-such a way. And by "why" in this case I'm not speaking from a standpoint so much of chemical or mechanical processes as much as from a standpoint of effects on end results. In other words, "why" in terms of "that will make a cake flat" as opposed to "water molecules will bind to starch grains..." - and again not that these 2 counterexamples are meant to correspond to the same effect.

I'm an amateur baker and have never made any representations as being a professional. However, it is my opinion that it is not automatic that the professional will know everything that any given amateur might know, or that the expert will know everything the beginner knows. It's also not automatic that the opinions of the expert are more valid than the opinions of the beginner. And people opinions can differ, and be equally valid, no matter what their comparative level of experience.

Meanwhile a good example of the risk I was outlining is in driving a stick shift vs. an automatic transmission. I've seen many, many drivers experience great difficulties in learning how to drive a stick shift, having learned on an automatic, difficulties far greater than those the absolutely new driver learning on a stick shift from the outset seems to encounter. Not everyone is like that - some make the transition effortlessly. But others don't, and by confining their learning at the outset you risk creating additional difficulties later.

Now, there are some drivers who from the beginning, don't want to learn a stick and never do want to learn. That's their choice and, as long as they're comfortable with an automatic, it's not an issue. However, for those who wish to learn both, I believe it's productive to start learning from the beginning with many types of vehicles.

From your posts in the past it's clear you have a wealth of technical and practical experience. Your focus and specialisation is professional baking and it's hard to deny that the professional arena confronts the would-be baker with a wide variety of situations to adapt to.

It's also probably true to say that in the professional arena there isn't the opportunity to experiment in the way one might do as an amateur. When time and money are critical and you have to make a profit in the here and now you can't most likely afford any failures. However, it's also my opinion that to a certain extent it would be wise if not essential to have experimented with multiple techniques, materials, ratios, etc. long before even deciding to enter the professional field.

Your experience, fortunately, seems to have been a good one. In my initial post I'll concede that I didn't make it clear when I indicated the risks that these possibilities wouldn't happen to everyone. Indeed, some people seem to be able to learn entirely incrementally and can adjust skills without difficulty with new information. However, there are others who, not given the most general principle at the outset, will *never* really cope successfully with situations different from the examples they were given.

There really is a difference in learning style. People from the former group often learn best by example and in fact get frustrated and confused. when people try to give them the general principles from the start or to introduce them to a wide variety of scenarios early on. People from the latter group learn best by being given the widest possible information base to draw from right away and instead encounter frustration if much later people introduce variables that they'd previously withheld.

...

Well, part of the difference here is that I didn't assume the OP was specifically aiming at a professional career. The post never mentioned his/her long-term goals.

Meanwhile, as I was talking about above, collecting recipes would lead to confusion for some, understanding for others. Some would be best served doing the same thing until they mastered that one thing, others by trying a variety of things and developing an understanding for the principles underlying *all* variations on the skills or recipes.

I think the method at least as you outlined it - by "Get to the Basics" I am interpreting that you mean that process of mastering a specific skill or ingredient set - is one valid learning style but not the only one. ...

Some people learn much better by incremental learning, some by much more discontinuous "jumps". One of my work colleagues, for example, is of the "jump" style. If you try to train him on anything by an incremental process, he very quickly gives up in frustration. And this frustration is real, not arrogance or narrow-mindedness, because one can watch him learn very effectively and quickly exactly the same information by a "jump" process. It's amazing to watch. He will immerse himself in a field and experiment with *everything* - even options you hadn't even conceived of. His level of competence initially is all over the map, but then suddenly he makes the big jump and then he's truly an expert and you can see he's really mastered the field.

Where I think problems *do* occur is when you pair an instructor who believes in one approach with a pupil who responds to the other. Have, for instance, this colleague try to train another person who learns incrementally, (as in fact happened a couple of times) and both fail miserably.

This is why, as I say, it's a philosophy. There are probably other approaches as well - I've simplified things by talking about 2 diametrically opposed learning styles. But I don't believe it's one-size- fits all and because of that I see no difficulty or risk in giving recipes to the OP as they requested.

Reply to
Alex Rast

InspirePoint website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.