Why is puff pastry sensitive to tiny differences in method?

This baffles me. I've been experimenting with puff pastry. It's easy enough to get perfect puff pastry with classic French technique : 2 cups flour, 1 cup butter, enough water to make a rather moist, smooth dough. Pat the butter into a flat square, roll the dough into a mound with 4 "wings", set butter on the mound, fold wings into the center, roll, fold in thirds, turn

90 degrees, roll again, fold in thirds, chill, repeat folding rolling and chilling procedure 2 times. Presto! Foolproof results.

But when I made what seems like a trivial modification (folding the dough in 4 parts, by folding in half one way and then in half the other, before rolling), the results were completely different. Since the 4-fold method will increase the layer count, I only figured I'd need to do the last repeat for 1 folding instead of 2, ending up with 1024 theoretical layers (instead of 1458. Big deal). But instead of flaky, the results are consistently a firmer, more pie-crust like texture - no layers to speak of, no puffing! Can somebody explain how the difference in folding method can have such a drastic effect on the final result?

Reply to
Alex Rast
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Because, there are only so many distinctively separate layers you can=20 can create, before the layers meld into each other. Especially if the gluten is too much developed and rolling in becomes a=20 bear, or the butter gets too warm. Plus, the first roll-in layers, that are usually not counted, could=20 influence the result dramatically.

Start with 4 layers or more End up with 1024 (or more) with 4 bookfolds, also called double turns. That is the max IMHO that the dough can handle, even with a very strong=20 bread flour.

Start with only 3 layers End up with 768 with 4 bookfolds, better for A/P flours and used for=20 pastry casings.

If you do 6 x triples (also called single fold), you end up with 2187=20 layers, way too many to create still distinctive layers, more like a=20 flaky pie-dough. But OK for Napoleons or Palmiers.

Most pasty chefs use 2 x tri-fold and 2 or 3 x book-fold, for best=20 results. Depending on useage. More for Napoleons and the lesser amount=20 for pastry casings.

BTW, the ratios are

100% flour 55-60% water 2 % salt 100% butter

5% of the flour is kneaded into the butter and 5% of the butter is=20 kneaded into the dough. Makes for better handling. The gluten in the dough is developed during the roll-in procedure. Don't let the dough get too warm during roll-in, or you get pie-dough. If the butter is too cold, it will destroy the layers, the dough will=20 rise unevenly,crooked during baking.

--=20 Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)

formatting link
, chefcmcchef.com"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

Reply to
H. W. Hans Kuntze

Agreed, and certainly I can see how if you went too far, you'd end up trying to create too many layers. But the method that works (starting with

2 layers, use 6*tri-fold, if I understand your terminology), would yield 1458 layers. For me that produces outstanding results. The method that doesn't work (start with 2 layers, use 5*bookfold), would be 1024. This would appear to be fewer layers and thus less risk of layer combining, not more.

It's worth noting that the my working method, ending at 1480 layers, uses low-gluten pastry flour. I did try it once with super-high protein bread flour, but the result was too tough and chewy (I'd have expected that anyway)

Your thoughts sound correct in principle, but nonetheless don't seem to be what's happening in my case.

Reply to
Alex Rast

s
5 bookfolds would give you 2048 layers. Way too much for a mille feuille.=

first =3D 8 second =3D 32 third =3D 128 fourth =3D 512 fifth =3D 2048

Nope, although I routinely cut GM's All Trump or BigLoaf with 25%=20 SoftAsSilk, because the sheeter will work better with a slightly softer=20 flour than with straight bread flour..The quality of the baked goods is=20 slightly better (not enough to bother with) with a straight bread flour. =

More distinct layers.

The puff pastry only gets tough when it is not baked properly, e.g. at=20

450F till it rises and finished at 350F. That means, it will bake in a=20 fat puddle if it is baked at a steady temp. You can only do that with an =

industrial dough, like Orange Bakery's all butter dough..

--=20 Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)

formatting link
, chefcmcchef.com"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

Reply to
H. W. Hans Kuntze

A difficulty in expressing the exact number. For the last folding, I only folded in half, i.e. after 512, I fold in half for 1024 and do not fold again for 2048. I've calculated and recalculated the theoretical layer count, just to make sure I'm not missing anything. No, the non-functional method for me is *definitely* 1024 layers, the functional one 1458.

That's actually why I decided to experiment with bread flour. I figured the higher gluten would allow a thinner layer, and thus more distinct layers as you suggest, and that I could probably live with the increase in chewiness, which I figured wouldn't be too awfully bad if I wasn't handling the dough or sheet roughly. But it was really quite tough indeed.

So do you mean that the proper method is to start at 450 then end at 350, or start at some fixed temperature and end at the same temperature?

Reply to
Alex Rast

That depends on your oven setup, although you always use dual-temp for=20 puffpastry. But if you use commercial pre-fab dough, they are formulated =

so, that you get away baking at single 400F. Not always avoidable if all =

4000 rooms are filled and you have many functions booked. As long as you use a quality all butter dough, the resulting product can =

be quite excellent.

Since I am working with a multitude of ovens, one is at 450 and the=20 other at 350 (standard swedish ceramic bakers 8 low-deck, individual=20 temp-reg). Convection you reduce by 25 degrees, although I don't like to =

bake feuilletage with convection.

Baking at home, you work with falling temp. Start at 450, insert goods=20 to be baked, 5 minutes later, throttle temp to 350, don't open oven.

--=20 Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)

formatting link
, chefcmcchef.com"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

Reply to
H. W. Hans Kuntze

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