OT: The Voices in my Head

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :

]DH listened to my angst filled ramblings and said, "Think about it. Two ]people in the world think you're a jerk, and everyone else loves you. Are ]you going to believe the rest of the world or just those two?"

GOOD for him!

]I concede that it's probably a few more than just two people who think I'm a ]jerk, but I choose to believe the rest of the world. I think I've finally ]made those insecure voices to finally shut up. Forever.

SO glad you have arrived at that point! i need to keep trying.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

Bill of Rights - Void where prohibited by Law.Regime Change in 2004 - The life you save may be your own.

When my dad cut himself off from me for 15 years I told myself that I wasn't smart/pretty/good enough on a daily basis. When I finally re-connected with him I found out that he was the person with the problem. His father (my grandfather) was remote and un-loving and spent all his time away from his family. So my dad was remote. Odds on, the problem your parents have with you is a problem they have with themselves. Thankfully, you did the right thing and the chain of disfunction stopped with you; you have a marvelous relationship with your own daughter. So you can tell those voices to go take a hike!!

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 1:29:42 -0400, Marisa Cappetta wrote (in message ):

You can say that again. Both my parents come from backgrounds with scary Made-For-Television-Movie type kind of abuse. Compared to their own childhoods, mine was Disneyland and ice cream. That they survived at all is nothing short of a miracle.

My sister and I were talking about our own childhood scars and we realized that our father never paid either one of us a compliment of any kind, ever. I'd bet a dollar that he never got any strokes from his parents, either.

God, I hope so. It hasn't always been easy, but DD is so excellent that it's well worth any effort to make her grow into a whole, happy adult.

Kathy N-V

P.S.: As I write this, DD is on the plane, just off the coast of Britain. I'll stay up until she calls and says that she's safely in Germany.

I still fight with myself over that kind of thing. Also, I still struggle with those voices. Like today a co-worker asked me if she got any calls on Tuesday. Hell, I've slept since then, how does she expect me to remember. Apparently her friend called and my coworker had been in a meeting all day and I never did see her, didn't leave her a note. I felt like telling her to stick it, it was a personal call and I was very busy that day but yet I'm feeling like she's jumping my case over it and I'm feeling insecure. Its like an emotional tug of war. I kinda grew up never sure if I was doing something the way someone thought I should do it so I know where that insecurity comes from. When it gets really bad I tell myself to "STOP" until I really quit thinking about it. I could drive myself crazy worrying about things and a counselor told me to do that and eventually you do stop thinking about it.

Your parents must be very insecure to talk to you like that and I think its great you said what you did to your mom. I'll never understand how people can treat their own child that way. I'm glad your dd has such good parents and realizes it.

Jo Jo

Damn straight! Its so hard to erase those old tapes. As children we believe what we are told about ourselves, both negative and positive, its so hard to find our own reality sometimes amidst all the voices. My voices told me I was fat, ugly and stupid, and that my worth as a woman came from being sexual, and yet that sexuality was a shameful thing. Im so glad you have those two wonderful members of your family who see you in an oh so positive way, who validate your new, healthier view of yourself. I happen to agree with them, just based on the little I know of you from your posts. You really are *that way*. :-) Diana

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"SmartAlecBlonde4" wrote I'm glad your dd has such good parents and> realizes it.

But you also have some secret weapons. You're intelligent and you have a deeper understanding. Your parents' reactions to you, on the other hand, are to a great extent unthinking, automatic, maybe more of a reaction to things *their* parents said than to you. This gives you more power than you might think, in terms of the ongoing problem.

If your parents tend to repeat the same insults time and again, you have the advantage. You actually know what they're going to say in advance! This means you can role play with yourself or someone else and plan the way you're going to react the next time they say that same old thing.

My father was always asking about my plans, then using whatever answer I gave to launch into a lecture about my insufficiencies and how I ought to go about things. I role played this with my SO, so that the next time he did it, I was able to respond with, "Wow, it sounds as if you know a lot about this, Dad. You should consider doing it yourself." For once, he was speechless - my stepmother had to finish out the conversation. He was completely taken aback that I defended myself. He didn't try that again for

*years*.

It doesn't fix the past, but it can be very healing to know *you have the power to stop them from hurting you in the here and now*. This seems simple, but we don't do it, because the child in us is always hoping that mom and dad will give us that unconditional love - is always shocked when they don't.

HTH,

• TL *

My father was the sweet one. It was my mother who I felt I couldn't please. Oddly I was a sort of favorite, but it was an illussion she of her own she saw, not me. Although she didn't drink she had many of the hallmarks of an alcoholic. She was self-centered and capricious. At a certain point I realized I was having relationships with men who had similar qualities.

And then, right before we were to get married, I realized that Pete was very, very much like my mother but in a healthy form. He is playful and impetuous, but more responsible (especially emotionally) and consistant. He is much much more aware of the uniqueness and value of others, and he is wonderfully nurturing.

Nice to have someone know exactly how to stick up for you!

• TL *

I was going to snip parts but ...again.. its all to good to.

What I would like to know is how to deal with the unspoken dissappointment that comes off my father in waves. He never *says* anything unkind to my face, but you can tell. For instance, when I brought DH, then my fiancee, to my brother's house my father showed up while Mike and I were on the deck. My father saw us on the deck together and sadly shook his head. I didnt see this.. it was Mike who let me know. I proudly introduced Mike to my dad ( not knowing of this rudness on dads part) I should add that I don't see my father, unless my brother has invited us both to the same function. That hasnt happened in over 5 years. Its to hard to deal with his crushing dissappointment. His loss. Most of the time I think Im pretty neat. There are even those people who are not family members who agree! Diana

I suppose that with a kid, you want to give them access to their grandparents. Personally, I haven't had contact with my father for years. He didn't just say bad things, he hurt me physically every day. I have never regretted cutting him off.

(((((Marilee)))))

Tina

Wow - good for you!! I feel kind of sorry for your parents - they obviously have not taken the time or energy to get to know the real you. You're a gem, Kathy - and I am happy that your DD, DH and a million other people get to see that.

regretted cutting him off.<

It's his loss, Marilee!

Carol in SLC My eBay auctions:

Oh I'm sure you are neat!

What are his circumstances? Sounds like there was a divorce in the past? Did he miss seeing you grow up? Is he happy with his accomplishments in life?

• TL *

If you have the time and the money, you might find it helpful to get some short-term counseling about this. A trained professional may be able to offer perspectives and solutions that even the most well-intentioned friend can't. Beyond that, it sounds as though you're doing reasonably well on your own. You've removed yourself from the source of the discomfort, and are concentrating on what you KNOW to be true rather than what the tapes are telling you.

One technique which some people find helpful when dealing with old tapes is "direct substitution". Every time you catch yourself thinking thoughts which come from the old tape, replace those thoughts with something else. Instead of thinking, "I'm such a disappointment to my father," think, "I'm a good person, I've accomplished a lot with my life, and I'm not responsible for my father's problems." Say it out loud, if necessary. Over time, you can actually rewrite the tape -- but it won't happen in a month, maybe not even in a year. You just keep doing it, and eventually you'll find yourself more likely to think *your* thoughts than the taped ones. It's like breaking any other habit.

Celine

Me too Kathy. Same soundtrack. My mother still does things like this too, and it does hurt.

Maybe they do things like that to help keep us small and not so scary to them----my mom has always feared my willingness to tell the truth, and so she calls me a liar. This helps her not be so afraid of my potential honest but non-palatable words.

Maybe your parents know somewhere inside them that you are Bigger Souled and more Wonderful than they know how to deal with comfortably, so they knock you down to a more comfortable (to them) level. Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery

view my auctions at:

I'll add another voice to those endorsing Alice Miller's thoughts and writings. "The Drama of the Gifted Child" is the first of several books she has written, and she refines her ideas further in each one.

I like the characterization of survivor/thriver :)

Laura

suvivor/thrivers.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:20:50 -0400, laura wrote (in message ):

Thank you, I'll have to check that out.

I'm not sure I do. If it makes an individual person feel better, so be it. But I think that my experience is amazingly common. The fact that my posting resonated with so many people validates that feeling. I'll call myself a very ordinary person, just muddling along.

There comes a point where you can no longer blame your parents for their shortcomings and have to decide that what happens from here on is all your own. My parents did the best they could, considering their own demons. The messages I was hearing were echoes in my own head. I'm good, but even I can't blame people for things they haven't said yet. :-)

The things that they say now are pretty much beyond their control. They're reading from a script and seeing things that aren't there, if they ever were there. They don't see me in my real life, every day. They're seeing, at best, my personality before I left home, and that was a very long time ago. Or they're seeing mirrors of themselves. Either way, it doesn't matter much. I can't change other people's behavior, just my reactions to it.

I'm old enough that I walk away when it gets to be too much. I don't depend on my parents for anything, have never asked them for a favor of any kind. Knowing that you are completely capable of taking care of yourself and your kid(s) is very liberating. My mom didn't have that luxury, she had to learn English and job skills all at once when my parents split up. That she had to depend on my earnings as a teen was probably very difficult for her. I know that it contributed to thousands of arguments: Since I was forced to grow up at such a young age, I wasn't exactly willing to take parental orders. To be fair, there were plenty of times I said "Screw you. I pay the bills around here, don't tell me what to do." I don't know what I'd do if DD ever said that to me.

One other thing I want to point out is that those of us who have chosen to be parents (or not) are setting a real historical precident: we are among the first people in history to have a real _choice_ about when/if to start a family. I cannot discount that from my observations as well. Our parents didn't really have a lot of choices in starting a family; for them, sex = babies. We were fortunate enough to choose exactly when we wanted to start a family, if we wanted to start a family at all, and to limit the number of children we had.

It's a lot easier to be a good parent when it is a conscious decision to become one, and to be able to have children when you are financially and emotionally ready. The importance of being ready cannot be overstated.

Anyway, I'd like to wrap up this long posting and thank you all. This has been enlightening and comforting and is giving me lots of food for thought.

Kathy N-V

My mother wasn't as bad as my step-dad. I grew up believing that I was ugly, worthless and unable to walk and chew gum at the same time. (Still amazes me that he could get me to believe all that for so long!) Of course, my mom had plenty of hurtful things to say too, but nothing like him. He was a very small and insecure man inside. He liked to keep others below him so that he could be king of the mountain. It's a common thread.

Barbara Dream Master

"We've got two lives, one we're given, the other one we make." Mary Chapin Carpenter