It wouldn't be legal for *government* agencies. Private ones can still get away with it, though. This issue came up on a mailing list a while back, and I actually did some RESEARCH! I called every adoption agency that had a local phone listing, said I was doing a paper for a class, and asked several questions. One of them was, specifically, "Would you place a black or mixed-race child with a white couple?" One or two said yes; one said they would do it only if the bio-mother approved; the others all said no.
There have recently been some new exceptions to the expensive adoptions. We have come across an agency in our state that will pay for all of the adoptive parents' costs, if they make less than a certain amount, and they have a sliding scale above that. I read through their policy and they are very fair in that provision, as far as I can see. DH and I are going to the agency's orientation in November, and hopefully will be able to adopt an infant and an older child very soon. We fall under the maximum income for paid fees, so we're very optimistic. Right now, we're already getting our house ready for the home studies, and we fully expect to have at least one child in our arms three or four months after I have my hysterectomy next June. We've always wanted to adopt, but we wanted to give my body one last chance to conceive, too. We both love children very much, and don't really care how they come to us. I've also given up a child for adoption, so this is like it's coming full circle. We would welcome a mixed race or cross cultural child into our home, but only after studying about the other culture, so that we can teach that child his or her ethnic heritage, and the agency we're looking at is very amenable to this. I am not sure how many agencies there are like this one, but I will ask, and let y'all know.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 0:07:20 -0400, Lee S. Billings wrote (in message ):
This is due to a policy statement put out by the Black Social Worker's Association. Some time back, they passed a position statement saying that adoption of black or mixed race kids into white families was akin to ethnic cleansing (or genocide, I can't remember which term, but they were equally offensive). They stated that they'd far rather these kids gain their najority in institutions or foster care than be raised by a white family.
I can't say that I agree. A loving home is a loving home, and a home that really cared about their African American adoptee would encourage that child to learn as much as possible about their own culture.
Karlee, I am suggesting that you can replace a child, and I should have made that clear. I can only tell you what I am observing in my friends who lost their daughter and now wish for a second child. They wanted two children, they now only have one. Of course they can't replace their daughter, but there were reasons for them wanting 2 children. Of course, I completely understand and respect your decision. I just thought relating my freind's experience might be of use to you. You have very sound reasons for your decision. Obviously you have not made it lightly.
I wish you had a more cooperative mother. Sounds like nothing has been real easy with her for you.
grief as much as one can after loosing a child, of
that my kids are a gift to me from a Higher
will mourn them, remember them, and celebrate the
would never want to try to have more. I will
long. There is also adoption. I could adopt. I
that its impossible for me to love an adopted
fact that I was born to a 14 year old
provide for me all the things that I would need
child, and I'm also grateful that there were
me and treat me like I *was* a genetic child.
can be, as nosy, pushy, opinionated, rude as
my mom, and if it weren't for her, I could have
never having much to call my own, not knowing
someone to turn to when you *really* need them
her.), or having someone to turn to for advice.
in with the whites.
families that just aren't ready emotionally or
of them never wind up with a family to call
decide that we want more kids. We could do
that will always be "theirs" even if they
several couples in my community that are fully
family that they had one child genetically, she had
They have 4 kids now, 3 of them are adopted.
thing....even though the "other" alternative saddens
that get pregnant and don't want to keep the
brother and sister were also adopted, all of
there are other options and there are people out
call me the "adoption advocate". I also talk to
them know that its their choice, and regardless
them find methods of birth control that work
ladies I was there for during their pregnancy
of them find resources for birth control (one
pregnancy, after much prayer, thought and sessions
Oh, good lord. This is practically criminal. Deliberately deprive a child of a loving home with caring parents because of *racial* considerations? That's like putting race above humanity.
I'm sure the child's need to live in a racially homogenous environment *far* outweighs his or her need to be loved, held and made to feel wanted and of value in a permanent home with loving parents. .
Sometimes I really wonder when or if the world is going to grow up.
I haven't called my mom since we got back from the trip to Pennsylvania, but she has called me twice. Tomorrow will be one week since I talked to her (she is now on vacation in NYC), and haven't called my dad while she has been gone.
I figure that if she gets used to talking to me once every week or two, then it won't be a signal to her that I'm having/had the baby when I don't talk to her every other day...
Course, I may just be shooting myself in the foot with this...but its worth a try. I just hope that someday soon she gets it through her head that I need space, and that I'm not going to let her intrude the way that she has been trying.
(side note, she got mad at me when I didn't call her the day after and two days after my wedding day. She couldn't understand that I had "other" things on my mind....)
I suppose growing up in an institution or foster families (no offense to foster families, I know there are good ones) are better than letting another race adopt these children?
No offense meant, but this whole statement really sets off one of my major warning bells. Having children isn't something you do for OTHER people. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it -- only that you need to be sure it's something YOU want before you do, because once you take that step there's no turning back. If you do it just to make your husband (or any of the potential grandparents) happy, you'll end up regretting it and resenting the child.
After I had submitted the letter I realized that people here would probably respond like that.
Just because I don't see the NECESSITY of a baby being biologically related to myself doesn't mean that I couldn't deal with having one (although these scary pregnancy stories certainly are not encouraging me to look at that process as enjoyable in itself!).
Before we got married we had a lot of conversations about our beliefs about family and values and I would say that although our values aren't 100% the same they are probably 90-95% overlapping (religion being the main factor... we are both Jewish but he is non-practicing and really didn't have much of a background from the way he was brought up). I always felt that if I were to get married (being unwilling to get married just to get married) having a family is a crucial part of life, and family is very important to him also. If it turns out that something is physically wrong with either of us, I would say I would push pretty hard to adopt rather then go with extraordinary measures, and I am thinking that we may wish to be foster or adoptive parents in the future regardless. However, if there are no physical constraints I do not see why I should not have a child or two (current plan is two, only after we feel "ready" which we hope will be around 28/29 years of age) just because he wants it MORE then I do. And while I wouldn't have a child FOR my parents or grandparents, I don't see their desire to have grandchildren as totally irrelevant. Having children in a family is an important part of family life.
Which isn't to say I disagree at all with some of the points made here about overpopulation, etc. (When I was young I always wanted to have a lot of kids but I now feel that would be really irresponsible).
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:23:40 -0400, Marisa E Exter wrote (in message ):
I could have written this about 15 years ago. It was a position statement about having children that absolutely jibes with the felt I was at the time.
I didn't care one way or another whether we made our kid(s) at home, or adopted, but DH felt strongly otherwise. There was also the fact that we could easily see one or all of our parents and grandparents rejecting a child who was of a different ethnic background than we are. There was also the fact that we didn't have a spare $60K lying around (I called agencies here in Mass, and that was the going rate at the time. Private adoptions are illegal in Mass.). Lastly, we had close friends who got a child placed with them at two days after birth, supposedly without legal risk, who was snatched away from them two years later when the birth mother detoxed and changed her mind.
We very much wanted a family, but we ended up deciding that the cons of adopting through state agencies were too much for us. Between that and the problems posed by our respective families, we decided to take a chance at having a child of our own. We decided that if we were unable to have children of our own, we would probably do without, rather than have an adopted child suffer the rejection from both our families.
Fortunately, we were blessed enough to have DD. Years later, our suspicions about our families' prejudices proved well founded. They were terrible about P/T D when she came into our lives, and each one came out and told us that the child "wasn't one of us." And this is a child whose racial/ethnic background is similar to ours! I cannot imagine their reactions if we had adopted a child of a different race than ours.
FWIW, adopting a child and saying "the heck with the families" wasn't an option for us. We are very close to our families, and rejecting them for sake of a child who isn't even known to us wasn't an option.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:10:45 -0400, Lee S. Billings wrote (in message ):
At least for me, I didn't have a child to please someone else. We were bound and determined to have kids in our life. It was just the method of getting those children that was up in the air.
I don't regret having DD, and couldn't be less resentlful of her. She is adored, unconditionally and without measure.
I fully agree with the "no turning back" part. When I was pregnant with DD, I was suffering pretty much every complication that you read about. The docs all recommended "terminating the pregnancy" for the sake of my health. Once she was there, I couldn't have even considered it, no way, no how.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:28:00 -0400, Dr. Sooz wrote (in message ):
My parents, my grandparents (whose opinion isn't going to change at this late date) and several of DH's aunts and uncles. DH's mother would have felt the same way, but she had passed away by then.
My siblings were slightly uneasy about it, but would have gotten over it. (They were more worried that P/T D's birth family would suddenly snatch her back, and we'd all end up hurt)
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention *that* little complication! It used to be that once the adoption was finalized, that was that -- but it's increasingly true now that the bio-parents can renege and find a judge willing to side with them. How the HELL can it be in the child's best interest to tear her away from the only family she's ever known???? You talk about selfishness -- THAT is true selfishness on the part of the bio-parents! (Sorry, hot button.)
Yes, that's another potential problem. There are still a LOT of people who consider adopted children "inferior" to biological children. I think some of my mother's family were that way, although no one ever came out and *said* it -- especially as I got older and my differences, physical and psychological, from the rest of the family became more clear.
I dont get that either.. ..grand kids are grandkids. If my son and his SO had adopted their child it would be my grandchild. What does genetics have to do with love? I do understand that looking at a genetic relative and seeing family traits. Seeing my mom or sis in my little girls face is wonderful, but what if she had no features in common with my family? Kids are kids, they need love.. end of story. :-) Diana
My favorite idea would be to see us evolve ways for *many* adults to be involved in the life and maturation process of the children who already exist, so it wasn't necessary for everyone to have children biologically in order to feel invested in the next generation.
It would require a lot of good communication among the co-parents about what values they felt needed to be used in jointly raising such a child. Only people with compatible values would make good co-parents ... without that, there would simply be a damaging tug of war over the children.
But it could potentially end child-neglect, where only one, or in some cases, no adults at all were available to stay tuned in and connected to each child now alive on the planet, and could satisfy one big reason why people want children: in order to involve themselves in our shared future in a way that is deeply personal.
And I think irresponsible child-bearing would go way down if people in their twenties had gotten what was necessary in their own childhoods to feel really loved and secure. So the process of loving today's children would mean less likelihood of tomorrow's unwanted and neglected children. The process would feed itself, once begun.
Lots of people end up with a child because they were desperately lonely, and just wanted to be held. And sex seemed like the only way to get that wish fulfilled.
I agree totally. We couldn't have any children of our own and I felt like there were alot of things standing in our way as far as adoption went. I think I'm finally past the yearning but that took years. I used to have a difficult time around babies. Now I'm able to enjoy them. Ever since my little nephew Jonathen was born, he was 9 weeks premature and that kid just stole my heart. When he speaks, my heart just melts and its one of the awwwwww moments. He's 6 now and has cerebal palsy and is a couple year *younger* than other 6 year olds (if that makes any sence). He's just special. Sorry for rambling from the discussion, I was just having a moment.
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