Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems

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Hi all - First time poster here.

I bought this machine brand new in 1999 with Palette 2.0
Now I've upgraded to 8.0

There is all of 2 hours use on this machine because of it's lack of ... what
I think is a serious reliability issue.

We can never ..... ever sew a project without the machine breaking a top
thread at least once. This thing can't embroider anything without breaking a
thread. We've adjusted tension with mixed results.  $5000 of machine, and it
sits 99.99999999 percent of the time.

Trying to sell it is laughable as people don't offer much more than $500.

We've never had an embroidery machine before, so I don't know if this is
normal or not. If it is ..... you'all have the patience of Saints.




Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems


NHR wrote:
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You don't really provide much information.  What kind of
thread (Brand? Poly/Rayon?) do you use?  What kind/size of
needle?  Have you tried slowing down to the slowest speed to
see if that helps?  Does your machine need
cleaning/oiling/maintenance?  Etc....

I have hundreds (thousands?) of hours on my embroidery
machine, I've had it for 6 years.

--
Beverly
http://ickes.us/default.aspx



Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems

Ok...... I'll play (Can you detect my utter frustration?)

Thread? It's embroidery thread...... to embroider ..... for my embroidery
machine. (I'm not trying to be sarcastic, rather logical)

Rayon vs Poly? What would you recommend?
I mean, If I had my way, I'd feed 20 pound fishing line in there and sneer
as I dare the machine to break that. But again.... as logic kicks in, one
would think if the thread is break proof, wouldn't you then break something
in the machine? - I mean.. there has to be a logical reason why a minute
into a project, the thread ...... just........ breaks.

Needle? It's an embroidery needle that came with the machine, among many.
What would you recommend?  For the most part ... lately, I'm just sewing
into a cloth backing just to test the pattern before I allow it to ruin the
intended article to be embroidered. By the way..... nothing stellar is being
done here .... no wall murals  .... just simple one or two word projects ,,
in the small hoop.  Seriously, if I was the designer of this machine, I'd be
ashamed to show my face in public.

Oil? Maintenance? This thing has been under a glass bubble for 10 years with
all of two hours use on it. If after two hours use it has to be taken in to
be "maintained" would re-enforce my comment about shameful design engineers.


All frustration aside ...... thanks for your help.






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Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems
NHR wrote:
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Yes. :-}

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However, surely you know what brand it is?  Madeira?
Robison Anton? Sulky? CTS?  Mettler?
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,23864,26637,27059,27140,27182,27198,27284,27294&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=embroidery+thread&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=embroidery+t&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f
Is it new or very old?  Has it been sitting in direct
sunlight? I certainly cannot offer an opinion without
knowing what brand is giving you fits.

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Short answer: It depends.  For something I'm make for a
child, which may require repeated machine washing, polyester
thread.  For a throw pillow or hanging, where the sheen is
more important, rayon.  etc....  I have never had a problem
with 40 weight rayon or poly from either Madeira or
Robison-Anton.  I do not like C&C.  for metalic thread I
learned to use a very large-eyed needle (14) and SLOW WAY
DOWN.

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Does your manual have a troubleshooting section?  What does
it say might be the cause?  You may have a burr somewhere in
the thread path, have you EVER had it looked at?  Have you
cleaned the bobbin area?  The needle thread path?  All
mechanical devices need some tender loving care on a regular
basis.

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You must be kidding.  After 10 years you are still using the
original needle?  Needles wear out, can be damaged, etc. and
a bad needle often causes thread breaks.  I use a new needle
for every second project, more often if the last one was a
huge design.

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See above.  Buy an assortment (several sizes (9-11-14) and
point types [woven & knit]) of the needles recommended for
your machine and replace them *often*.

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Or, it may be operator error.  ;->

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If you had a car that had been "under a glass bubble for 10
years" would you not take it in for routine inspection and
maintenance before starting off on a 1000 mile trip?  Same
thing.

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You're welcome.

--
Beverly
http://ickes.us/default.aspx



Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems
I understand utter frustration.  The embroidery machine learning/diddling
took heaps more tenacity that I ever imagined but Bev is doing a great job
of guiding you.  Pay attention to what she's telling you.  I still fail to
embroider on fine batiste without squinches which is what I wanted to do in
the first place - but if you see Miss Beverly's stitching, you'll know she's
top of the line.  Polly


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http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,23864,26637,27059,27140,27182,27198,27284,27294&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=embroidery+thread&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=embroidery+t&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f
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Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems
Polly Esther wrote:
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Thanks for your kind words, Pol.  ;->

--
Beverly
http://ickes.us/default.aspx



Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems

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I've/We've never paid attention to brand. ..... we thought, thread....was
thread.... with the difference being ebroidery thread vs normal. If thread
branding was so important as ... it apparantly is .... then perhaps babylock
would have included information as such when they promptly cashed my $5000
check.

Having said that ....... To go through this in a manner of "process of
elimination" ..... what would you suggest is the BEST brand to use? I'm in
Canada.

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http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,23864,26637,27059,27140,27182,27198,27284,27294&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=embroidery+thread&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=embroidery+t&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f
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Well, it's old thread now .....but thread has always been in the thread
drawers. Age of thread is not an issue at this point as the machine has
behaved this way from day one.

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There is no branding on any of the spools (the ones that have been opened)
They vary .... One spool says Bluebird.

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Noted

The machine was looked at in the beginning whereby they said it was "fixed".
Clearly it's not.
In so far as "loving care" .... There isn't a device in this house with a
wire or a gear that .... even after
20 years can't still pass as brand new. I take care of my things well.....
as I usually only like to buy things ONCE. LOL. :)
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No ... the machine came with many needles. And we bought additional
embroidery needles.

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OR a poorly designed machine ;->

This was the Cadillac of machines in 1999 - God help those who bought the VW
Bug version.

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No, as there would be nothing to inspect .... if the item had not been
used..... period..... how can it wear out.

Thanks again




Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems
NHR wrote:

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I haven't been used for a while (retired) but I'm wearing out too!

Here's how a sewing machine can 'wear out'

  Lubricants gel, settle, or solidify and lose their effectiveness. In
the worst case, they could jam the mechanism completely.

   Parts that have been resting against each other unmoved can develop
flat spots. Particularly true with plastic parts, but even some metal
parts can suffer.

   Dust and particulates can settle into strange places - even in a
supposedly sealed environmnet.

   Gases and chemicals in the air can affect parts (unlikely unless
you're running a meth lab or live next door to a refinery).

Beverly mentioned the possibility of operator error. This was NOT a
slur. It's possible that there's some seemingly innocuous action or
that you don't know about or have ignored or something that would
eliminate the thread breaking problem.

Machine embroidery takes some time to get right. The number of
elements is almost endless - from hooping methods to changing speed
depending on what's beeing stitched and where to thread brands for
both bobbin and surface, stabilizers, adjustable tensions, and on and
on. In person courses help, but they may be difficult to find for your
system. There may be some available on-line as videos or documents.

  - Herb


Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems
On 28/10/2010 17:02, NHR wrote:
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In 10 years any lubricant in the machine will have evaporated, hardened,
or gone sticky...  Same as in an untouched vehicle.  It makes sense to
have a service when taking anything out of mothballs.  I do this even
with my old mechanical machines, even if it's only a month since they
were last on the bench being used.  Any lint from thread that has
drifted into hidden places can wick lubricants out of bearings and seize
them up.  If this happens, YOU wear it out when you use the machine
without taking the care to service it when you want to use it again.

Thread is as important as any other element of the sewing process.
Cheap thread is fuzzy and makes lint, which drifts into places like the
tension mechanisms, the bearings, and all the little servo motors that
drive swanky machines like this in all different directions to form the
stitches.  Same with fluffy fabrics...  You need to clean the machine
thoroughly after every use, and in the middle of larger projects.  You
need to lubricate where the manual advises, and not at all if there are
no instructions to do so in the manual!  You also need to give the
machine the equivalent of a 10,000 mile/12 month service: 10,000 miles
OR 12 months, whichever comes first, used or mothballed!

I tend to use the German made needles: Schmetz, Rhein, Gross-Beckert, or
Klasse.  MUCH  better than Singer brand or Organ in my experience.  And
as Beverly says: match the needle type and size to the process: an
embroidery needle of the correct size and type for the thread and fabric
you are using (for example, use a Metallica/metallic thread needle for
metallic threads, a top-stitching needle for heavy threads, bigger
needles (90's) for heavier quilting threads and sharp/quilting/jeans
needles for sandwiched quilts, denim and furnishing fabrics...  ).

Though I don't yet have a full embroidery capable machine, I do use
embroidery threads of various types for different utility and decorative
elements (buttonholes, eyelets, heirloom edging, etc.), and yes, as with
other threads, brands and qualities are not all the same.  I have many
different brands.  Those I like best are YLI silk threads, Empress Mills
floss and bulk threads, and Mettler and Empress Mills embroidery
threads.  I use rayon where wear is not an issue and I cannot get a silk
filament in the correct colour, and polyester where wear might make a
difference (such as the eyelets in a tight-lacing corset).  I also like
Aurifil threads.  I have some of their wool/acrylic blend to experiment
with, and love their 100 weight cotton, getting excellent decorative
elements using it.

That said, once the machine has been serviced, you have threaded up with
top quality embroidery and bobbin threads, given it a new needle suited
to the task, and eliminated user error, there are some Friday Night
Specials in every brand...  I think I might have made a LOT more fuss
and been far more insistent that the machine be exchanged or sorted out
properly when it first manifested this problem.  It may be too late to
do so now, as the world of computer controlled sewing machines has kept
pace with the computing world in general, and a 10 YO embroidery machine
is now almost as much a dinosaur as Great Aunt Jessie's treadle!  My
£1100 Husqvarna Lily 550 certainly is!  I keep it in use, keep it
cleaned, get it serviced regularly, and just spent £103 getting a full
service, recalibration and resetting of all the stitch patterns, and a
small £13 part in the foot control fixed.

Worth every penny.  Lily is now good for another 10 years hard labour,
with annual servicing...
--
Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
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Re: Babylock Esante - Perpetual Problems
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:02:06 -0500, NHR wrote:

If that machine has a plastic presser foot, check the foot for burrs,
often caused by abrasion from the thread as the hoop moves.

gwh




Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
Firstly, I'd like to apologize for being such a cynic ..... Until now, I've
never been so frustrated with something in all of my life as I was with this
embroidery machine. It sickened me to know we spent $5,000 for something
that .... for all intents and purposes, never worked for us. Then to add
insult to injury, to find that if we were to sell it, we wouldn't get much
more than $500.  Ugggghhh.

==========================

I would like to thank you very much for your help. I was at my wits end and
was fully prepared to pack it in, in so far as embroidering was concerned.

It would appear that you were 100 correct in the thread quality.
I went out today and bought a spool Robison Anton Rayon black and a spool of
Janome Polyester bobbin thread. I also bought a pack of Schmetz 14 Needles.

I ran a pattern  "Buddy" in the small hoop just using the backing as a test.
Whereas before, the upper thread would have broken 2 to 4 times before
completion.  This time, I ran 3 samples ..... all finished without a single
breakage.

So I then removed the Schmetz 14 and put back in my smaller sized 9 needle
(less than 2 hours of usage). Again, the pattern went without breakage.
I inspected my needle under my jewlers industrial microscope and compared it
with the new one. Mine looked as sharp and pristine as the new one, with the
exception of being smaller.

My conclusion? I had been using garbage thread all this time.

And I would have never have thought to buy the best if not for you.

For that, I thank you kindly.  All I have to do now is find a cheaper source
as I paid $9.00 for a 1100 yard spool.


Funny though, when I was in the shop I asked them about bobbin thread.
Although recently I had been using normal bobbin thread, I do have a HUGE
supply spool of nylon bobbin thread. I was told today at the shop to stay
away from the nylon bobbin thread.  Your thoughts?



By the way, thanks again for your guidance, and thanks to the rest of you
who chirped in.









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http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,23864,26637,27059,27140,27182,27198,27284,27294&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=embroidery+thread&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=embroidery+t&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f
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Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
On another note would you all trust Ebay as a source for Robison Anton
thread?










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Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
On 11/1/2010 3:00 PM, NHR wrote:
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That's one possibility.  If you don't get what you ordered, PayPal
and/or eBay will be sure you get a full refund, as long as you follow
the procedure.  I suggest you also look at http://www.shoppersrule.com/
  Join the "club" -- it's free.
--
Joanne
stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com
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Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
Have you all ever heard of Marathon Thread?

http://www.marathonthreadscanada.com/rayon.html





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Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
We used Marathon thread exclusively and have even become distributors.

First things first. Forget all that thread stuff. It's only the icing on the
cupcake.

GET THE MACHINE TUNED UP PROPERLY!!!


We had problems with our Brother machine too at first and after a few
tune-ups it has worked flawlessly since. We break a thread every 40
patterns, maybe and a needle every six months now.

After getting the thing running right (with some good thread recommended
from the repair guy) then worry about fine tuning the thread, tension and
other fine details. Get a thread stand and don't use the self-contained
one...they don't work well on the side.


Have you all ever heard of Marathon Thread?

http://www.marathonthreadscanada.com/rayon.html







Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
Gymmy Bob/ JP Bengi/Josepi blathered into the ether:

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Distributors of BS over the Usenets is what
you have become, Loser.

NHR & others.
Pay absolutely no heed to the edjut's blather.
As with anything.. plenty of salt over the shoulder
when reading his BS.. and a little rapid crossing
of oneself may help the religious amongst you.

Me?
I use a pitchfork on his BS.

.. mind how you go.

--

lê.̃eem̃

Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
Marathon has starter thread kits with various quantities of spools in them.
They come in rayon or polyester and give you a well priced starter's
assortment of coloured thread.

Make sure you ask for their colour swatches with your order, each time. You
get one free (of the 5 units) with each order (may be limited to sales
certain price tag. We always order a few hundred dollars worth at a time so
we always get free swatch cards.

There used to be a USA dealer for them, also, but I see they are right in
your Canuckistan neighbourhood.

They are always looking for more distributors but you may have to lay out
some bucks to get the starter kits.  Prices end up being really cheap and
the thread is excellent once your machine is tuned up, properly.




Have you all ever heard of Marathon Thread?

http://www.marathonthreadscanada.com/rayon.html





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Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
NHR wrote:
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I would trust a retail seller using eBay, but NOT random
people selling "grandma's collection of thread".  You
already know how that turns out.  :-(

--
Beverly
http://ickes.us/default.aspx




Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
NHR wrote:
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We've all been there over SOMETHING!  ;->

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Just like buying an expensive new car: the value drops by
half the minute you drive it off the lot.  The same car a
year later can be had for MUCH less then the brand new
price.

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You're welcome, I'm glad what I wrote helped.

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;-}  Life's too short to fuss with bad thread.  That is true
for garment sewing, and especially true for machine
embroidery.

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Hurrah!!!

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Keep some needles of different sizes on hand, some project
down the line will love you for it.  And do heed my advice,
change the needle often.

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I buy almost all my thread online.  Robison Anton here:
http://www.allthreads.com/Robison_Anton_Thread.aspx?RefID=GARAT2&gclid=CKCfjZ6DgaUCFREPbAodI0r4PA
or here:
http://www.shoppersrule.com/mm5/merchant.mvc ?

I also bought two collections of R-A thread:
http://www.allthreads.com/Robison_Anton_Thread_Packages.aspx

When I first started 6 years ago, I bought a Madeira
"Treasure Chest":
http://www.shoppersrule.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-4010860403&Store_Code=sr&search=Madeira&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high =

I now buy Madeira straight form madeira.com:
http://madeirausa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.mainCategory&productGroup_ID=145 &

It helps that I have a Madeira color chart for both poly and
rayon.

I'm in the USA, so shipping is not problem, I don't know how
they handle international shipping, but you might contact
one of the Canadian suppliers:
http://madeirausa.com/madeiraworldwide.htm

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I have used R-A and Madeira polyester bobbin thread
exclusively.  They work and I see no reason to temp fate.
;-}

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You're welcome, I hope you start enjoying your machine
soon.. By the way, you didn't ask, but I also have a
favorite supplier for designs:
www.emblibrary.com
Their designs are well digitized, and they have a huge
searchable inventory.

NAYY,

--
Beverly
http://ickes.us/default.aspx




Re: Heartfelt Thanks - Very much appreciated
Well, thank you so much, Beverly.  We have a dear and passionate friend who
is a New Orleans Saints fan/maniac.  She is expecting a first granddaughter.
We wanted to make some new baby things with a pink fleur de lis.  Just
looking quickly, I don't see anything tiny enough but am glad to know what
design place you know to be reliable.  Polly


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http://www.allthreads.com/Robison_Anton_Thread.aspx?RefID=GARAT2&gclid=CKCfjZ6DgaUCFREPbAodI0r4PA
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http://www.shoppersrule.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-4010860403&Store_Code=sr&search=Madeira&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high =
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http://madeirausa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.mainCategory&productGroup_ID=145 &
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