digitizer 10000 security dongle

Here in the Great White North, if someone steals something from you, you file a complaint with the police. They investigate, and if they find the person they believe is responsible, and have the evidence to support it, a criminal charge will be laid. "Causing harm to the public" doesn't enter into the equation.

gwh

It's stealing, stealing is a criminal offence.

duh

Are you upset that the person is ripping someone off, or that the person is ripping off someone in your profession?

Bullshit! The prices are so high because they want to make as much money as they can.

Look at the CD market. They have been ripping the people for years.

Guess how Microsoft got so big in the market. They sold Dos for $29.95 and included a 1100 page manual. Less cost than you could photocopy the manual for.

I suppose you are one of the people that thinks that everyone in business is there just to see how deep they can get into a consumer's pocket - I should point out a few things - not all of us in the software business are as greedy as (or wealthy as) Mr Bill (Gates) - personally, I drive a 1978 VW Bus, live in a rented house, and manage to pay my bills on time and still be able to buy fabric and thread when we want to (both my wife and I share the fabric addiction).

It is a gross generalization to think that just because you are a software business, that you are gouging the customer for everything they will pony up with. I also realize that to say that the reason prices are high is that everyone is pirating software is another gross generalization - only a small percentage of embroidery folks are outright pirates - most people who copy and share designs have no idea that they are breaking the law, and when educated, will stop.

What is it you do for a living, you idiot? Do you do it for free? Do you ask for the occasional raise (greedy, greedy...) or do you just take what they want to pay you without question?

Besides, last time I checked, the economic system we live under was capitalism (although I would call myself a socialist) - that means that the economy works by a minor principle called 'the profit motive' and Microsoft got big because they were better at the rules of the game than anybody else in the software biz.

Anyway...I better shut up now and go sell some software....

-------------------------------- Scott - Tech/Developer MyThreadBox Software Digital Thread Matching Software

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I take what they pay me without question. If they do not like what I do I will move on, sales boy.

The product I put out makes my company 1000's of percent profit and if they do not like the way I do it there is many companies standing in line for my services.

Many people pirate many things. They pirate embroidery patterns, software and TV signals to name a few major ones. Proven marketting technique is when the market gouging is reduced , so is the pirating. Some do it for the thrill, some just because they are collectors, some to actually use it.

Pirating is one method that has actually been encouraged in the TV market. In Canada the number two satellite company, StarChoice has discussed making their receivers hackable, to add to their user base the way Bell Expressvu did. It is a marketting scheme to distribute their product to millions of users for the hope they will get "something for nothing". You know the technique "Bait and Switch" or maybe you don't, if you are a starving honest saleman.

I guess the marketteers better find ways to "protect" their software better and spend most of their enginuity on protections schemes. we all know what that means. The product suffers because the time isn't being spent honing their product anymore. People get pissed off with the protection rackets and do not buy anymore. Who wants to buy a software package for $6-800 for something that has no waranty, sight unseen, and the vendor has no legal responsiblity to deliver a product that even works. The buying is out on a limb and without "pirating" most people would not even get to try the package let alone buy it ever. But then as a sales agent you should know all this with your MBA that you command such a high dollar for...ooops I guess you don't.

Well, duh!! And one thing they have to do, in order to make as much money as possible, is set prices high enough to cover the costs of developing the software, and the losses caused by criminals who steal software.

Microsoft got so big in the market largely through unethical and/or illegal business practices. For years, whenever anyone bought a computer they paid for MS-DOS/Windows even if there was no operating system on the computer.

gwh

More bullshit.I have bought many computers and never paid for Dos or Windows with it yet.

Well, actually, this one I do know about. Many of the computer manufacturers had to pay for the license to DOS/Windows, even if it wasn't installed. That's one of the predatory practices Microsoft was dinged for.

So if you bought from any major company (Gateway, Dell, Hitachi, etc. Not JOE BOB's Computers.) you did pay for it, whether or not you received it or it was a line item. Sort of like paying for an air bag in your car.

DaveJ

Yup, they definitely pushed the fine line of morality many times later in life. The original argument put out was that they original got their markethold by offering cheap software to the public with a not -too-bad product and nobody could bother to pirate it. They got in bed with IBM, then considered a giant by the non-computer people and that put them on the market fast. The computer people were saying at the time "Not another Dos. That's the last thing we need" Thier MSDos never did come up to standards with many of the current Dosses available at the time like os9, C/PM, M/PM, Index and Unix.

Your definition is incorrect.

"Not paying for"shareware is not stealing it.

So you are defining, opening your car bonnet and looking how it the engine is constructed, as stealing. I think not! When you start copying the engine, duplicate it and sell the reproduced engine, then it is stealing, provided it is patented and in the country that it is patented in, where the law applies only.

Let's reword this to read: It selling your software/product to a person for money with known bugs and defects and not standing good for warranty repairs so that your customer has to discard the software/product as useless considered stealing? No of course not! It is considered normal business practice by salesmen around the world. After all, they have a right to earn a living just as much as the next person even if they know it to be only a "little dishonest" but within their marketing plans and rights, as taught to them by the sales leaders they have studied under.

So you see, it all depends where you draw your line. But notice I did say "YOUR line".

I am only posting without real name and email because of the criminals in newsgroups that may try to contact me for immoral purposes. Most of them are sales people.

Also This in now way implies that I agree or disagree with pirating software or patterns. This is only playing the devil's advocate. There is always two sides to the coin, Because you can only see one does not mean there isn't another.

Are you changing your position from "software" to "shareware"? The premise of shareware is to allow a potential buyer to try the software, usually for a set period of time, to see if it meets his/her needs. If a person continues to use the shareware program without buying it, that is stealing.

gwh

In this area, even the smaller guys had to pay royalities to Microsoft, and, of course, passed that cost to their customers.

gwh

I already own Janome software (paid for it) but if I was able to use the software without a dongle...I would do it. The reason is because the darn dongle is a pain in the rear. It and my printer do not get along and nothing I do seems to help. For me, getting around the dongle and sharing software are not one in the same.

That is correct. Hacking software is not a criminal act. It may be a violation of the accepted, by you, copywrite agreement you signed or theoretically accepted when you openned the package but that does not make it criminal.

The usage of software not authorized is not criminal either. It is a violation of copywrite by the person distributing it. Are you familiar with what you agreed to when you last upgraded your Internet Explorer, Media Player, Outlook Express or Windows? I think not, and you may be in violation of that agreement and subject to retributions to Microsoft at this point. The copywrite can state anything the writer desires and if you agree to it you can be subject to misuse damages. If is says you will not sneeze while using it, many of us have already violated the copywrite. They have to catch me now...LOL

The giving, selling, or otherwise viltaing the accepted copywrite agreement, whatever it says, is where you can be sued successfully for violating. The American laws say you can be successfully sued for $10,000 (It has been awhile now) for each piece of software spread to the public without any proof of actual damages. If proof of damages can be calculated you can be in for much more for each violation. The actual damages can not usually be proven or even estimated. There are no standards to set the amounts.

As before, peeking under your bonnet to look at the engine of your automobile is not a violation of your accepted copywrite or in this case a patent but selling a cloned engine is or may be depending on what the agreement says.

Each case is different. Copying is not criminal. Hacking is not criminal. The harm domne can be criminal or you may be responsible for damages.

Stealing is in the mind of the angry and frustrated.

I agree with you.

You bought it legally. I think that telling you that you can only use it with the dongle attached is like telling you that you can only drive your car with the windows up.

In the US, it IS now criminal. The DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) contains a number of draconian "anti-circumvention" provisions. There are test cases coming up and the copyright office (official administrator of parts of the DMCA) asked for public comments over a year ago. I THINK that the most current status may be read at: