ADVICE: Large Stained Glass Piece

My wife works in stained glass, using the copper foil technique. She has been asked to make a large rectangular piece to cover a window, and is not sure it is feasible with that technique (can it be made rigid enough?). The project is not to make the window itself, but to make a rectangular hanging piece large enough to cover most or all of a window

46 inches wide x 21 inches high.

Thanks for any advice.

-- "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."

Reply to
Matthew Lybanon
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i work that large daily in foil. Just make sure the design will lend the structural support necessary and use strongline where you can. m

Reply to
Michele Blank

The copper foil technique can be used for virtually any size of window. The important part is proper reinforcement.

As a rule of thumb, a window more than three square feet should be reinforced. Either reinforcing bar or rod may be used for support. Be sure to consider this when designing the window so that the reinforcement does not intrude or compromise the design of the finished work. In either case the reinforcement is soldered to the back of the panel in one of two ways. The bar should be pre-tinned before use. You will solder the bar in several places at intersecting lines on the window. Rough the areas to be soldered on the bar with steel wool. Apply flux and coat the areas with solder. Doing this will make soldering the bar to the window much easier. Place the bar on edge and solder to the window in the predetermined areas.

When using rod, a length of pre-tinned wire is first soldered at several intersecting lines on the window where the rod will sit. The rod rests on the wire which is twisted around it. Apply a bit of solder to the twisted wire. Solder either end of the rod (or bar) to the edge came. In some cases the rod or bar extends on either side of the panel and is ?buried? in the wood casing of the window to provide optimum security. The casing is notched where the bar will fit and filled over to disguise it.

Matthew Lyban> My wife works in stained glass, using the copper foil technique. She

Reply to
John

Nice description, but it does go to show there are different ways of doing things in different studios, with a different point of view.

  1. I NEVER put bars outside the window, i.e. "back", for two reasons, first if this is an exposed panel, when the wind and rain come they are exerting pressure toward the inside of the building, the steel rebar is then "pulling" where it is attached and the window is only held by the ties, no strength there everything stretches and the steel returns to "plumb" but the glass does not, buckling will occur and the support you wanted is gone.

If it is on the inside of the panel 2 things occur, the wind and rain is "pushing" against the window and the rebar, the rebar is holding everything and when the wind stops the memory in the steel springs everything back to plumb, ideal situation, (those old guys did know something!) Also when the sun is shining and moving across the sky, with the bars on the outside, the size of the shadow cast changes in size, if the bar is on the inside, it stays the same.

I read an article, and I wish I could remember which mag it was in, probably the Stained Glass of the SGAA, that said the eyes see the bars, the mind ignores them, and you see the entire design as planned.

Also, from a restoration guys point of view, having been up on the scaffold, cutting the tie wires to remove a panel for restoration, I find a "soldered to the bar at the edge" on a window with the bars sunk in the wood and I am one pissed off individual. Please, for the next generations sake, DO NOT DO THIS!

As a side note, for those that want to jump in, I am NOT addressing the use of protective glazing , outer "glass" of plastic or tempered glass or any other condition, just the use of rebar, (vertically every 18-24 inches depending on design)

Reply to
Javahut

Methinks you've been sitting on yer thumb. The original poster was inquiring about a decorative panel that is not exposed to the elements or likely to be abused like being mounted into a door. It doesn't need any reinforcement, as long as there aren't any major design flaws creating fold lines, etc.

Three square feet is a panel about 21" +/- square. I see panels EVERY DAY that are 28"x76" door inserts that aren't reinforced. I see bath windows that are up to 20 square feet (5'-0" by 4'-0") that aren't reinforced. In fact, in modern residental applications, reinforcing is pretty much non-existant....know why? Because the people who build them know how to cut and fit glass together and how to design panels so that they don't have fold lines and how to cement a leaded panel to make it stand up.

I know people do it, but you would never catch me exposing a copper-foiled panel to the elements. There's a guy nearby here who makes door inserts and bath windows with this technique, and somehow manages to stay in business. I asked him why he did it that way....his answer was that he didn't know how to do lead came. I just shook my head. He's been in business for a long time and teaches classes, etc. Sheesh.

Reply to
Moonraker

I'm not a glass worker, I do woodwork. I've just been asked to make a frame for a similar piece.

It's for an internal doorway that has been bricked up to leave a window. The doorway is 2'6" by 3'6" tall, the wall is 4" thick and the glass is 2" less than this all round (i.e. the frame is 2" thick). It's copper foiled. I note the comments about "fold lines". Owing to the design, this panel will have fold lines in the border area, about

3" in from the edge.

Any advice? What's the best way to support a piece of glasslike this? I'm thinking of making a wooden frame that's 1/2" undersize, mounting the glass in it in my workshop, then taking the whole lot on site inside the frame. I then shim the frame to fit the hole (which I've not accurately measured).

Thanks,

Reply to
Andy Dingley

generally, i don't have any type of reinforcement until it's around 14' in linear edge in size. for copper foil, i would use strongline. you might ask the fabricator if they put any in when the panel was assembled.

if it's in a thick frame, then your panel should be ok. i have both vertical and horizontal fold lines near the edges in

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it's a bit larger than your piece, and has been hanging for about 5 years without any problems. it's frame in 1" deep by .5" wide standard aluminium picture frame. your idea of shimming the frame is ok, but will be visible. you could make it a little more undersized, and simply hang it from some eye rings set into the upper frame, or use some trim around the edges to hide the shims. the hanging idea would allow it to be removed for cleaning easily. i've done it both ways.

regards, charlie cave creek, az

Reply to
Charles Spitzer

Well....Make the frame with a rabbett large enough to drop the panel into. Seal the panel into the rabbett with some clear silicone, and hold it all in place with some stop on the other side. Once the panel is surrounded and sealed into the frame, you shouldn't need any reinforcement. Think of how a panel is set into an entry door. You could install stop into the jamb, set the frame into the stop (shiming for level) and then put stop on the other side.

Reply to
Moonraker

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