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Cleaning up copper after torch firing Enamel...

I'm torch firing enamel powders, frits, Diachroic, etc. on 24 oz copper sheets.. I want to retain some of the natural copper color in some areas of the pieces after being torched (no underglaze..), so I need to remove the firescale.

Mostly, I've been using SPAREX #2 and a dremel (with an arsenal of bits, discs, etc...) and the results have been pretty good but I have noticed some 'dulling' after cleaning where the end of the glass meets copper. I want to try and avoid this in future pieces and was wondering if anyone has a better method of removing the firescale.... ( I'm pretty sure the Dremel is causing the 'dulling')....

I read somewhere that "Penny Weight" cleaner is supposed to work really well with enamel's, metals and is less caustic but I've never tried it.... Is it any good ?

Also, should I stay away from the dremel for this application ? Would doing it the 'old fashioned way' ( by hand..) be a better option ? What would be the recommended sanding grit's / stones etc... for finishing the enameled / fused piece ? The finest grit I currently have is wet sanding paper @ 600 and 800 grit which I use to give the copper some 'tooth' to hold the enamel previous to torching.

Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

Reply to
Jman
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You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

Reply to
JK

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them...) I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones with sound advice. I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on this NG. You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be here than anyone else. We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect' either. Having said that, you should take your own advice and not bother to respond either.... Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies.... :)

Cheers,

/FC

Reply to
Jman

Don't hold your breath on that one.

Reply to
Moonraker

Have you tried using a dilute sulphuric acid pickle, that is what is commonly used to clean the oxide from copper and leave the copper intact.

Reply to
David Billington

Hide quoted text -

Hey there David,

Thanks for replying...

Yes, I tried the 'Sparex #2" and it works REALLY well, but I did notice that it's a bit hard on the enamel. By that I mean some of the pieces I pickled had enamel coming off (usually tiny pieces..) in bits and I wasn't sure if it was the pickle, or my application of the enamel in the first place. I'm kinda new at this....but I suppose that's fairly obvious...

The other thing that I noticed about the 'Acid based pickles' is that the copper turns this really 'Pink color', which I assume is normal. The problem with this, is that I need to get that "Shiny Copper" look back and I end up having to use the dremel either way..... Somewhat frustrating really.

Do you know of a protective GUM or some kind of BINDER that might be applied to the copper (where the enamel is not...) PRE-FIRING that might shield the copper from some of the really nasty firescale ?

Cheers,

/FC

Reply to
Jman

ified to answer

More fun pulling yer chain!

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

Hide quoted text -

I saw Sparex and was thinking of Cratex rubberised abrasive. Sparex is apparently a sodium bisulphate based pickle so I have not used it. Personally I have no problem with dilute sulphuric acid as it is a fairly safe, I always use eye protection with any chemical, other protection depending on the hazards of the chemical.

Not sure why the bits would be coming off, close inspection might reveal a reason. I presume you are putting the enamelled piece in the pickle cold. My main experience with pickling is after silver soldering brass and copper parts which can be thrown in the pickle hot but that would likely kill the enamel from the sudden cooling.

Normal in my experience also.

I can't think of anything at the moment but I don't do a lot of enamelling. Batt wash sprung to mind but I know that won't stick to the copper from experince slumping over batt wash covered copper formers, can lead to some nice effects though. Might be worth giving graphite a try, other than that some sort of kiln with a reducing or inert atmosphere might be in order to prevent the oxidation on the exposed copper. A reducing atmosphere might create problems with certain colours though.

Reply to
David Billington

ified to answer

You serious? You call those directions? hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

t.- Hide quoted text -

David,

I've been putting my pieces in a warm Sparex solution when there are cold. I did a few hot pieces once in a really warm pickle and even that turned out....errr, nasty to say the least ! I believe it has been my application that kinda screwed things up. I put a few pieces together today and put more 'tooth' into the copper before I enameled and low and behold, the enamel seems to be adhering much better. I think I'll try your suggestion regarding the mild sulphuric acid....

Sorry for my complete ignorance but what is BATT wash ? Is that like a kiln wash ?

Also, the graphite of which you speak... Is that graphite powder ?

You sound like you know quite a bit about glass. Do you do a lot of slumping and stained glass work ?

Thanks again,

/FC

Reply to
Jman

ified to answer

Muhahahahah....

Tis' funny.....

Reply to
Jman

"complete ignorance"

I think that pretty much sums it up. The key word being, "complete".

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

Hide quoted text -

One of the things I found difficult with enamelling was getting the pieces absolutely clean so the enamel stuck properly. As the exposed areas will oxidise over time are you gong to lacquer them or let them dull down, I presume a clear enamel coat is not what you are after.

I really can't say if dilute sulphuric acid will be any better as I have never done a comparison, mainly I just noted that Sparex was mentioned as a safe alternative to sulphuric acid pickle, but having looked at the MSDS for sodium bisulphate I would treat both the same.

Maybe Batt wash is a UK name, it is the stuff you put on kiln shelves to stop the pieces sticking.

I got a sort of liquid graphite or carbon product from

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, in the US, I was intending it for covering steel for certain glassblowing items. I have not tried it for masking copper areas. I think first I would try to crush up some graphite and apply it to the area to be covered, maybe with a small amount of oil as a binder.

Mainly glassblowing but I do a little bit of slumping, not done stained glass since a brief try as a teenager years ago. Main background is in metal but I always wanted to try glassblowing and had an opportunity about 8 years ago, not looked back since.

Reply to
David Billington

You know what's funny? Both you and Dennis are using the same server out of Calgary. Here's Dennis's:

OrgName: Shaw Communications Inc. OrgID: SHAWC Address: Suite 800 Address: 630 - 3rd Ave. SW City: Calgary StateProv: AB PostalCode: T2P-4L4 Country: CA

ReferralServer: rwhois://rs1so.cg.shawcable.net:4321

NetRange: 24.64.0.0 - 24.71.255.255 CIDR: 24.64.0.0/13 NetName: SHAW-COMM NetHandle: NET-24-64-0-0-1 Parent: NET-24-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Allocation NameServer: NS7.NO.CG.SHAWCABLE.NET NameServer: NS8.SO.CG.SHAWCABLE.NET Comment: RegDate: 1996-06-03 Updated: 2006-02-08

And here's yours:

OrgName: Shaw Communications Inc. OrgID: SHAWC Address: Suite 800 Address: 630 - 3rd Ave. SW City: Calgary StateProv: AB PostalCode: T2P-4L4 Country: CA

ReferralServer: rwhois://rs1so.cg.shawcable.net:4321

NetRange: 68.144.0.0 - 68.151.255.255 CIDR: 68.144.0.0/13 NetName: SHAW-COMM NetHandle: NET-68-144-0-0-1 Parent: NET-68-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Allocation NameServer: NS7.NO.CG.SHAWCABLE.NET NameServer: NS8.SO.CG.SHAWCABLE.NET Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE RegDate: 2002-06-03 Updated: 2006-02-08

What a coincedence, wouldn't you say?

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

Pullin' yer chain is a hoot! And...better a hwalfwit than a wholewit like you...btw...I still love those kiln wash instructions.

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

You might add instructions.....just a thought. Oh yeah, clean your fingernails in the videos.

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

Looking forward to any replies.... :)

Cheers,

/FC

You're quite offbase. I have no standing here, and took my lumps when I started as well. I was just telling you how NG's in general work. I have zero expertise and just come here for the entertainment value.

Reply to
JK

Just a quick question, Kim? ....how many glass forums have you been banned from because of your business practices and misinformation?

Me either.

Reply to
Moonraker

And you're certainly doing a fine job!

Reply to
Chemo the Clown

Pulling his chain.... HA !

You went to all that trouble to pull his chain ? I think not there...PTA. You're still trying to connect the two of us together, we aren't a conspiracy unlike 911, the price of Gold,' etc... Hell, we're just a couple of Western Canadians ( west is towards the big blue body of water to the 'left', in case you were wondering...)

Cheers PTA,

/FC

Reply to
Jman

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