Entry Door Insert

I am building a diamond beveled pattern insert for my entry door using 4" x

7" diamonds. The completed insert will measure approximately 20" X 60". I intend to place the insert between two sheets of tempered glass. How do I frame out the insert? I am sure there must be a commercially available material to frame the insert, what is it called and where can I purchase it? After the insert is properly "laminated/ sandwiched/ framed" I will build a custom fitted wooden door for it.

Thanks,

Roger in Abilene

Reply to
Roger Jensen
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Best bet is to have a local commercial glazier that does insulated glass sandwich the art glass between the tempered sheets. There is a DIY product available from CRLaurence, but the learning curve is pretty steep. You'll have to have somebody order in the tempered anyway, so why not have them make the whole insert? Be aware that your panel will grow in overall size (height and width) by about 3/4" to 1", depending on the type of "squiggle" they use to make the sandwich.

Reply to
Moonraker

Appreciate your reply and advice, but I am wanting to do the sandwiching task myself, realize I will need to have the tempered glass cut. Hopefully I will figure something out.

Roger in Abilene

Reply to
Roger Jensen

the commercially available materials are either wood or plastic. and they come is specific sizes, no "app." unless you order a single piece, on a custom order, want to guess at the cost?

BUT, if you are building the door, make the molding to hold it in place. Exterior doors are traditionally 1 3/4" thick, you can make a leaded insert, with 1/8" tempered glass on either side, using bevels on your lead,

3/4" to 1" thick, your choice. Then use an applied molding on your door.

By the way, the insert is more than 2 pieces of tempered with the lead inside, it is "glued" together , with a dessicant filled material around the edge, so that it is a single entity. That is what you are framing in the door. Personally I prefer mine 1" thick.

Reply to
Javahut

Maybe I missed something earlier, is your specific question,"How do I frame out the insert?" Perhaps our use of terminology is a problem here. What do YOU mean by "frame out the insert"? Is it how do you create the thermal insulated unit using 2 pcs tempered and a lead panel? or how do you frame the finished insulated unit? I guess I am just overtired and can't grasp the question.

The use of "laminated/ sandwiched/ framed" is confusing because they are 3 different things!

You build the leaded unit, you surround it or stack "airspace material (containing dessicant) on it, and then further stack it with safety glass, creating a thermal insulated leaded unit. You frame that unit in the door, usually with wood, but there are fiberglass and plastic units out there.

Reply to
Javahut

"Javahut"

I do not know the proper terms to describe the task hence my question.... I am building a single sheet of beveled glass diamonds that will measure about

20" X 60" when completed. I do not know the proper way to laminate this single sheet with tempered glass and am requesting help. I can definetly build and frame in the completed item in my door.

Roger in Abilene

Reply to
Roger Jensen

I'll stick my .02 cents in here. Glass on both sides of a finished panel is ugly. It takes away from everything you did, especially with bevels. It's gonna look like all the chinese crap that you can buy from Home Depot. Depending on your design and method, you may not need any. Stained glass was made and installed for hundreds of years before there was insulated glass. All this happened because the price of oil went from .05 a gallon in the '20's to over $1 in the 70's. Again this is just my opinion. Now some tips for your project. It must be absolutely pristinely clean before it goes in the sandwich. Tempered glass CANNOT be cut. Get spacers from your local glass shop, and while you're there, ask them if you can watch them do a unit. Watching one is better than reading 10 books.

Reply to
jk

i think i would probably attack this a bit differently. What you want is glass to help keep the panel from eventually bowing, right? Well, install one sheet of tempered glass to the exterior as you would any door insert glass. Then install the panel behind that using plastic bumps from a hardware shop spaced along the edges/corners to keep from rattling against the tempered. Then finish with your half/round window stop. Or, if you really think you need the second tempered to the inside, use bumps again, then the tempered, then the final molding stops.Do not seal the panel/glass with anything like silicon or you may get condensation inside. It has to be able to breathe, you may even want to use weep holes in the interior molding to allow for circulation. m

Reply to
Michele Blank

You mean 1/4 round right Michele? I got the impression that this guy wants to do it the way he sees it done in Home Depot type doors, not for any particular structural reasons. Plus he is intent on doing the entire thing himself. Let's see his response to these suggestions.

Reply to
jk

Oops! failed that geometry class. quarter round it is. m

Reply to
Michele Blank

My sentiments exactly. There's always somebody who wants to reinvent the wheel. There's absolutely NO reason to put tempered or insulated glass in a door with a leaded glass panel. If it requires tempered because of expected rough treatment, they probably shouldn't have a leaded glass insert to start with. And if it gets cold enough to require an insulated unit, ditto.

I went through this with a customer last fall. He absolutely insisted that I was going to put two sheets of laminated (not tempered) on either side of an oval panel. Never mind that the door was barely thick enough to accomodate the leaded glass and the stops. I refused to do more than repair the panel. When I got back with it, he had gotten the laminated sheets and had scabbed some luaun plywood rings around the oval opening as spacers to increase the depth of the opening for the glass. I guess he was going to try to cover the spacers with the factory stops and a couple coats of gloss enamel.....

Reply to
Moonraker

Thanks to all of you for the very good information. I am very enthused with the thought of NOT putting the beveled glass panel between sheets of tempered glass. I had not thought of simply using the single panel, you all are right for sure in that leaded glass has been around a long time. I took the lions share of my ideas from what I have seen at "Home Depot" ... I just tossed the idea of laminating out the door ;)

Thanks again,

Roger

PS: Do you all ever run into building codes that require tempered glass ?

Reply to
Roger Jensen

Yes, according to the BOCA codes, ("stained, leaded, and/or decorative glass is exempt from the safety glazing laws.) glass entry doors, glass within a certain distance from the entry and also within a certain distance of the floor. (18")?

The insulated unit DOES help with thermal properties in those areas that need it, I am in MI. we need it in winter, heat bill would go up tremendously without insulated glass. Because I am in a climate that needs insulated windows, does this mean I can't have beveled glass? I don't think so. But you are in a warm climate, no sense if you don't need it.

Insulating does NOT keep a window from sagging, just has no where to go, will fog and scratch clear glass. It is insulated for the homes advantage, not the leaded window's. If you build a bad unit, insulating won't help it.

Reply to
Javahut

I installed a 60" rose window in our new church entry. I live in a cold climate so I had a 60" round thermopane installed. The art glass was installed on the inside in it's own wooden frame. I left 1/2" space between it and the thermopane and inserted six 1" dia. casement vents around the wooden frame. It is a SW exposure and it doesn't overheat or mist up in the cold.

Daym>i think i would probably attack this a bit differently. What you want is

Reply to
D& M B

My method for installing door lites is radically different.

Install a standard double-glazed sealed unit in the door. Install the stained glass panel separate from it on the interior - with a 1/4" space allowing for ventilation between the sealed unit and the stained glass panel.

Reply to
Dennis Brady

Hi Folks, I am looking for a diamond bandsaw for glass and crystal that is the next size or two up from anything that Delphi sells for stained glass. This would be a wet saw that can slice through a block three or four inches thick with ease. I have checked CR Laurence, Sommer & Macha, and more ot the usual suspects already. I appreciate your help. - John ............................................................. John O. Riordan, RiordanArtistry.com Premium Sandblast Etching in Crystal, Glass and Marble john snipped-for-privacy@RiordanArtistry.com Phone: 630-832-9199 Fax: 630-832-2514 ............................................................. John O. Riordan, Riordan Artistry, Inc. - Premium Sandblast Etching in Crystal, Glass and Marble snipped-for-privacy@RiordanArtistry.com

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630-832-9199 Fax: 630-832-2514...........................................................

Reply to
John O. Riordan - Riordan Artistry

look into lapidary saws, used for slabbing rocks.

Reply to
Charles Spitzer

Did you look at the saw from Denver machinery? Runs about $1700. I saw one up at Savoy in Portland and it's awesome.

Andy Neoglassic Studio Medford, OR

Reply to
Andy

Also.... I've seen where 'handy' folks have made great conversion saws from Delta "wood" bandsaws. You can buy diamond blades to fit pretty much any size you need, so why not? I've always planned to build one, but not had a pressing need quite yet....someday I will do it though. The $1700 price tag provides all the incentive I need to build my own, just like kilns...;-) Should top out at a couple hundred clams and be an interesting life experience.

Regards, Jacques Bordeleau

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Reply to
Sundog

you might also want to look at tile saws. m

Reply to
Michele Blank

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