Lead laws

I'm torn between being up or being down.

Down 'cause I think it's flat out bullshit propaganda devoid of scientific justificiation. Up 'cause I figure if they actually do it, I'll become repugnantly rich smuggling lead from Canada to the states.

Place your orders early fellas. Supplies are limited. Not much more than a coupla million tons. US price is $1.25/lb now. Who knows what it'll go up to?

Your gunna end up with the only country on earth that banned lead - and the only country still using imperial measure. Both make equal sense.

I started hearing about it about 3 years ago and haven't seen anything happening yet. About 6 years or so ago the government put some lead laws in place but it didn't affect the stained glass industry...largely due to a large letter writting campaign and petitions to congressmen. I think the same thing will happen and the stained glass industry will be exempt. Stranger things have happened with the government though.

Andy

except for at the liquor stores ;)

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banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

No, but I would be interested in seeing that bill. Do you have a cite? I know there has been a move for reduction of lead emissions from industry, but not aware of any across the board 100% outright ban. Do you mean limited to electrical/electronics?

My scuba diving expenses are going to be phenonmenal if we need to go to platinum weight belts, not to mention dangerous!

Like many things, it'll likely depend on which party forms the next government. Usually it's the Democrats that are most concerned about health and the environment, but this issue is truly about neither. It's being agressively promoted by companies that hope to have lead banned so you'll be forced to buy non-lead products (that by an interesting co-incidence they make). A Republican government is more likely to support their intensive lobbying.

This whole anti-lead movement can be easily and effectly killed. Just demand the advocates supply proof for the need.

I have this on good authority that it's all but a done deal. That's why the push to find a lead free solder and came product to our industry. In case you missed it, the last time they did this, our industry was saved at the last minute by the hired lead manufacturer lobbyists. You need to speak to a lead industry guy. I lost my contact recently... he retired. Hope we get what may be the only exemption this time around.

Yeah - and what about all the medical people who will get radiated? Lead is the only shielding that can stop x-rays and other high energy emissions. No body in the government or the legislature even considers ALL the variations BEFORE they write or enforce a law. Right now it's prescriptions. Tomorrow it will be lead! Hal

Or go metric and ban nickel, cadmium, etc. etc. etc. Join the rest of the world.

The platinum weight belts are the rage in the more stylish resorts. Tantalum is also hot this year, touted as "the poor man's platinum". Gold sinkers are beginning to appear in the boxes of the more trendy anglers.

They'll supply that proof right after the proof of WMDs in Iraq.

In some cases - lead based solders are being regulated internationally - and with concern more for disposal and leaching lead into water supplies in the case of electronics and stained glass. Since the toxicity of ingested (in this case breathing in lead fumes makes it to the blood stream as well as eating lead) is well understood and not in dispute - the movement to lead free solders will be sped up or slowed down by political parties - but not stopped or reversed, if experience is a guide.

IN electronics, there are as many technical barriers to adopting lead free as in stained glass - and the electronics markets are much larger in lobbying power - so until there is a workable alternative - I would not think that sweeping regulations are immediate - despite tough deadlines currently in place.

Okay here are some starting places for you - easily attained by a quick google search on my part:

poisoning is a very well documented condition - evidence even as earlyas the Roman era and evidence that breathing fumes in are as effective ifnot more so than eating lead inadvertently. If you handle a lot of solder, you had better take some precautions if you do not want high lead levels in your blood - the effects of lead in the bloodstream are well documented and not in dispute. Cognitive problems - i.e. Insantity - it has been speculated that it affected the Roman government's ability to function at one point - and while not in favor as a theory for the rise and fall of Rome, its reason for dispute is NOT whether lead is poisonous or not.

what ARE the symptoms of lead -poisoning? m

Lead has been regulated in most countries for some time. I believe the only country moving to ban it completely is the U.S. The push for that ban isn't for health and safety but to provide increased economic opportunities for companies hoping to sell alternatives.

I fully support the movement to ban lead in the U.S. - for entirely selfish reasons. When it's unavailable in the U.S., I'm gunna become repugnantly rich by smuggling it in from Canada (which as it has done with many things, will NOT be following the poorly thought out and non-scientifically justified American lead).

The problem is analagous to putting a frog in a pot of cold water and then turning up the heat. He just sits there, fat dumb, and happy until the water is boiling and his ass is cooked. And he didn't ever see it coming.

My levels are way elevated. "Normal", if there is such a thing, is 70 has the potential to be fatal, but the one doc I saw said he has seen levels as high as 110. The person had neuro problems, but wasn't DRT. (Dead right there.) The current levels are up from < >17 about 18 months ago.

In my case, there aren't any specific symptoms that I can point to, other than some digestive ones that "may" be related to the lead. The problem is that the serum lead levels are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Lead will sequester itself in the connective tissues, bone marrow, organs, as well as in the blood. I'm told that it can be "reversed" by chelation therapy, and if the chelation is done long enough, nearly all the lead can be excreted. Problem is, the chelation isn't lead specific, it will also cause you to excrete the body's necessary minerals, too. So you have to be on a supplement of vitamins and minerals.

My SO works at CDC, so I've had a chance to talk at length with the MD in charge of the CDC's branch that specializes in lead abatement and lead poisoning. He told me that their studies indicate mere handling of "new" lead came wasn't a significant risk. Higher risks were present from soldering (inhalation of the "smoke"), and he seemed to think there might be some benefit to using the least aggressive, non-smoking flux available. The most danger to SG workers comes from handling old lead in repairs and restoration work. (BINGO!!!)

According to the CDC doc. the most dangerous aspect is the white "bloom" that builds up on weathered panels, a lead oxide. It is usually not tightly bound to the lead came, and when disturbed, becomes airborne and easily inhaled. A respirator is, IMHO, now as mandatory as safety glasses. Soldering on old, oxidized work, using paste flux that smokes like crazy, and not cleaning a panel before working on it is what has done me in, I suppose. I guess I'm going to start wiping down repairs with a wet throw-away wipe before I begin.

I also have been using ammonia on the panels to soften the putty. I don't remember my college chemistry well enough to know if the ammonia is reacting somehow with the lead oxide and making some inorganic compound that I'm absorbing through the skin. That's one of the things I want to find out from the CDC/ Emory connection I have coming up. My brother has a degree in chemistry, and I've written him asking the question, but no response, yet.

Before I begin a regimen of treatment, I have two more MD's to see. I've seen one this past week who has successfully treated some SG workers in the past. Problem with him is that he's not in our insurance and I'd have to do a bunch of paperwork to get reimbursed. (And the treatment isn't cheap).

I have an appointment Tues with another chelation expert, and I have made contact with the chief resident at Emory University's Med School Occupational Health Department. Emory and CDC are very intertwined, with some people on both payrolls. This is where I really want to be treated because they will be on the cutting edge (no pun intended) of the science. I'm just waiting for a phone call from them to get me into the clinic.

That is certainly one opinion. The addition of lead into gasoline was initially economically motivated and lobbied for by the lead additive companies - and the possible problems were known at the time.

The removal of lead form electronics is motivated by European countries that are starting to see elevated lead levels in their water due to leaching of lead from electronics in landfills. They haven't, until recently, taken steps against lead in gasoline.

Until a viable alternative for electronics is found - I doubt solders will be lead free for some time.

Good luck with the business plan for that - not sure the penalties or exactly when it will take effect.

Really? And just WHO would those companies be? I have a few grand of investable cash to stick in some up and coming stock.

Of course, following your economic advice would be a sure road to the poorhouse. Never mind.

And I'll be the first Yank to drop a dime on you.

I googled "lead poisoning symptoms" and got plenty. It seems to me more dangerous to kids. Below is one summary. John Bassett

After being ingested lead enters the bloodstream and is absorbed and stored in many tissues and organs in the body, including the liver, kidneys, brain, teeth and bones. High levels of lead can cause serious health problems in your children. Lead poisoning can affect almost every organ system of the body, including:

brain and central nervous system, causing: lower IQs headaches memory problems reduced coordination learning disabilities irritability hyperactivity increased sleeping decreased activity and fatigue hearing loss vomiting slow reflexes muscle weakness, affecting mainly the upper extremities seizures, coma, hypertension in high levels gastrointestinal system, causing: constipation diarrhea abdominal pain vomiting poor appetite weight loss blood system, causing anemia or low blood counts kidney problems reproductive system, causing: miscarriages premature birth low birth weight If your child has any of these symptoms of lead poisoning and he is at risk for lead exposure then you should see your doctor immediately. Most children with lead poisoning do not have any symptoms, so if your child is at risk you should still have him tested even if he is not having any problems.

Some effects of lead poisoning, such as poor school performance because of a low IQ, do not show up until a child is much older, at which time they will probably have a normal lead level, and so may not be attributed to lead poisoning.

John and Christina

Your post was well educated and concise - your brain is obviously still capable of doing a good job despite the high numbers. I'm guessing you're kinda freaked out right now so don't loose sight of common sense, you've always had plenty of that. The symptom list that was posted, keep in mind that that's how it is for SOME people SOME times but it is not guaranteed to work out for you, or anyone else, that way. It sounds like you're in very capable medical hands, go with what they say and forget about hearsay fiction by non-medicalitioners.

Best to you, I'm keepin' them crossed for you, keep us posted.

Bart.

- Check my most up to date email address at:

banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

I appreciate (and needed) your kind words. Thanks.