Lurkers Speak!

Izzat a Freudian slip?

I thought it was satin slip....

Let me guess, it's because such profound information flows from YOUR keyboard? They are so busy absorbing what YOU have to say that they don't have time? Is that it?

Give some thought to why the lurkers chose to not post.

Lurkers need not fear a harsh reaction here, they are welcome. Only overbearing, uninformed morons that constantly abuse the rules and deliberately make themselves pariahs, like yourself, should beware. You have become the designated target on almost every board on the internet. You seem to be safe on your board, where nobody posts anyway, and of course, you post on Sybil's board. Other than that you are unwelcome everywhere. Gosh, I wonder why . . . Brock

Could it have something to do with you?

Oh, I forgot this in my last post. Have you found those quotes yet, you lying toad? Keep looking, I'll wait. Brock

You are going to be in trouble with the National Toad Breeder's Association if you constantly demean toads by comparing Dennis to one.

Oh, I forgot this in my last post. Have you found those quotes yet, you lying toad? Keep looking, I'll wait. Brock

You are going to be in trouble with the National Toad Breeder's Association if you constantly demean toads by comparing Dennis to one.

Hmmm . . . hadn't considered that. Okay, I'll call him a lying turd. Surely turds don't have an association. Brock

PS Found those quotes yet, you lying turd?

I started lurking here about a year or so ago when both my wife and I decided we should finally take up the hobby - we'd talked about it for a couple of years. I have since developed the theory that just about every person who does much stained glass work is suffering from some sort of severe personality disorder, perhaps due to lead poisoning.

I signed us up for a class. My wife was very uncomfortable with the ranting and raving of the instructor, and never came back after the first meeting. I lasted one more session, got our money refunded, and never went back. A couple of months later, we get this flyer from the guy, saying he's going to do only contract work, is selling off his stock and will never teach another class again. It seems he only had enough people to field a single class in 2005, 5 of the 6 people did not complete it. Evidently, if everyone was not gong to be grateful, well, he'd take his ball and go home.

I've read many complaints here about lack of new students, lack of sales, etc over the last year or so. Hey, if you treat your customers like this guy did, how can you be surprised that no one wants to do business with you. I see the same childish rants, raves, personal attacks and foul attitudes all over this newsgroup. It's a shame, because I still think this could be an interesting hobby. But there are many, many other hobbies out there that are just as interesting and rewarding, and they don't seem to come with the abuse heaped on people like the instructor we had, or the unmerited verbal attacks that are commonplace in this newsgroup.

I pull headers here once a week or so. If Carol(?) in Turkey has a post in a thread, I tend to pull the bodies for those headers. There is frequently something I can learn from a thread she participates in, because it takes longer, usually, for the hate-mongers here to ruin it.. Most of the rest I will just spot check to see if there is any substance to it, or kill it if has descended into the typical 6-year-old level of name calling that seems to be 90% of the posts.

Why don't lurkers post? Probably because they see the virulent, antisocial attitudes dumped on the group by two or three people on a very regular basis. My belief is that many potential beginners are probably nearing retirement age, certainly have disposable income, but are totally turned away by the vulgar abuse that appears to me to permeate the hobby, at least as it is represented in rec.crafts.glass.

Since I have never before in my life found such a pocket of mean-spirited people by nature, I must assume that many of the frequent posters here are suffering from some form of lead poisoning that is causing these asocial attitudes and behavior. I mean, what do you guys do, hold all the solder in your mouths all day long, week after week or something?

My thanks to the few courteous, helpful people who occasionally post here. Those few are the sole reason I still lurk here, and have not completely given up on the hobby. But I will probably never consider spending any serious money on it again - perhaps just a time-killer some rainy weekend.

I also lurk over at rec.woodworking, where almost always even a clueless newbie will get helpful responses and even friendly answers to honest, even pretty stupid newbie type questions. RWW is the most helpful newsgroup I have followed. The help and advice I got there convinced me to pry open my wallet a couple months back and spend a couple of grand for a new cabinet saw. In more than a year following this group, I have not seen anything posted that begins to induce me to spend even a tenth that much, ever again, on the SG hobby.

Listen up you retailers and suppliers. Y'all are killing off the golden goose with all your infighting. You'd have a lot more lurkers here, and potential customers too, if this wasn't a group dominated by a few pathetic people.

Ok, flame away. I've even dropped every twit filter I've had in this group to make sure I see every argument refuting this post. I really want to hear the logic as to how ranting, raving, name-calling, insults and veiled threats brings people into the hobby. Maybe you'll convince me that common courtesy and respect are a waste of time. I doubt it, but fire away.

Regards, Roy

You can choose to be as thin skinned as you like Roy. This is usenet, and there's no one here to breakup the fights or punish the bad boys. This goes on in every group I've ever read, from computers to health topics. As far as I know there's only one poster that gets constantly attacked here whenever he pops up. I think you're assuming it happens to everyone. Not true. As for your bad class experience... don't judge an entire profession by one bad teacher. That would be very silly indeed. I've taught 1000's of folks and have not had one refund request in over 25 years. I can't tell you how many really bad teachers I had in my public school days. If I took your advice, I would have quit school before I was 10 years old. See no flames.

Still waiting to hear about how many of your students that have taken your advice, have successful money making glass businesses running today. What percentage of your students that you teach turbo soldering, and anti 3 tier system buying are making a living doing the kiln work you talk about? In my

25 years of teaching 1000's of students, I could count on one hand the ones that are making a living at it.

"Roy snipped-for-privacy@houston.rr.com>" I really want to hear the logic as to how ranting, raving,

Golly. I didn't know that rec.crafts.glass was some sort of a recruitment organization for the "hobby". In the future, I'll try not to fart or belch while I'm sitting at the computer.

"Roy snipped-for-privacy@houston.rr.com>" >Give some thought to why the lurkers chose to not post.

decided we should finally take

developed the theory that

some sort of severe

ranting and raving of the

more session, got our money

flyer from the guy, saying

never teach another class

2005, 5 of the 6 people did

well, he'd take his ball and

etc over the last year or

surprised that no one wants

attacks and foul attitudes

be an interesting hobby.

interesting and rewarding, and

instructor we had, or the unmerited

in a thread, I tend to pull

from a thread she

here to ruin it.. Most of

kill it if has descended

antisocial attitudes dumped on the

many potential beginners

are totally turned away

it is represented in

people by nature, I must

of lead poisoning that is

do, hold all the solder in

Those few are the sole

But I will probably never

time-killer some rainy weekend.

newbie will get helpful

type questions. RWW is

there convinced me to pry

cabinet saw. In more than

to induce me to spend even

goose with all your

too, if this wasn't a group

group to make sure I see every

Maybe you'll convince me

Whoa, Roy, had a fresh batch of coffee, did we?

First off, where is the world did you get the idea that Usenet was here to promote hobbyists? Does it say that in the charter? This group is here to discuss glass and its creation as regards to a craft. Nobody on here gives

2 rips if you spend 10 grand on tools, for glass or wood, nor should they be impressed by your ability to do so.

2nd, this is where I vent on stupidity, in the glass world or elsewhere, if I so chose to do so, and I also offer up little tidbits of my experience in working with glass. If you don't like that, or don't chose to read it, or use it, GREAT, good for you, and your right to do so..

If you got a bum teacher, then I bet his commission work sucks too, and he probably isn't there anymore unless he is so impressed with his own work that his trust fund allows him to remain.

Don't confuse the attitude of people here with what it is in real life, this is a place for alter egos to come out. Of course a person can't vent like this in their classroom, then people like you would do what you did. And rightly so. I taught in the system for 12 years, Adult Ed, stained glass, to people who wanted to be there, they paid, they bought supplies, and I had alot of people that would take the class that knew what they were doing, because we had a good time and alot of laughs. No one got physically hurt, they built what they wanted and learned from not only what they did, but what others did. Even though at that time I had a retail supply store, I taught the classes with cutter, grozing pliers, straight edge and soldering iron as the major tools. NO grinders, no sales pitches, just learn. NO ONE EVER ASKED FOR THEIR MONEY BACK, 12 YEARS

So what does that have to do with what goes on here? NOT 1 THING, that is my point.

Why should I give a rip what you spend on a glass hobby in Houston? Doesn't effect me in Michigan, not at all. even if you were visiting here and needed a sq ft of Glue chip. Cause I don't sell it. You really believe that people involved with glass as a profession care if there are more hobbyists? not particularly, the hobbyist is the person sitting on a church committee that is building a new church and knows so much about glass that they are determined to make sure they don't get "ripped off" by the stained glass professional giving a presentation, and asks why the bid is so high. They understand just enough about stained glass to get themselves in trouble.

Good job Roy, brought me out of my summer sleep, its getting cold here now, got to park the bike and spend more time here, aren'tcha glad?

Hi Roy, Just my 2 cents worth but shouldn't you just get a hobby that you really really enjoy? I don't do glass because of other people. I just think glass is fascinating even if my own work is not that great.

decided we should finally take

developed the theory that

from some sort of severe

YOU have got to be the biggest lame brain dipsit I have ever seen. THS IS NOT A WEBSITE, NOR IS IT A "BOARD", If you want a moderator to control your misfit sales posts go to the internet and find one...

This is Usenet,

MORON!!

I, for one, have lurked sometimes and contributed at others. This board has been reduced to the rantings of people with no emotional control and so, after subscribing for maybe 10 years, I am "unsubscribing" from this list. Life's too short for this ridiculous banter.

snipped-for-privacy@nc.rr.com snipped-for-privacy@nc.rr.com snipped-for-privacy@nc.rr.com

Cool another "taker" gone, how bout replacing her with a "giver"?

Before you stalk out Mary, why not just killfile the ones you don't want to listen to? That mean ignore them permanently. Makes more sense.