Solder properties? Irons?

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Hi all, I'm  new to stained glass.  Ok, that probably lost 90% of you but
sometimes you just have to be new.  I've been lurking, and rarely, posting
here for the past month or so. I am considering working with lead free
solder and am looking for a site that lists solder properties.  What I want
to know is what percentage of what metals it contains and the melting
points.  Any suggestions of where I could find something like this?

Anyone here using a lead free suitable for the copper foil method of stained
glass work?
Since melting points are higher than leaded solder, what iron/type of flux
do you like to use with it?
Will it work nicely with black patina?  Look good on it's own?

Yes, I am taking a class and can ask the instructor (a 60/40 person);  but,
as with most things, I think there is more than one approach that will work.
Opinions please?


Email is munged, remove the "eels" if you wish to use it.



Re: Solder properties? Irons?

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Hooray!  A newbie lurker that isn't an argumentative troll.   Welcome.  ;>)

I am considering working with lead free
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want

Probably everything you'd ever want to know about solder is at this link,
including the alloys, fluxes,  and melting points:

http://canfieldmetals.com/stained.htm

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stained

Not me.  But my recent blood lead level tests may indicate that I have to go
to such a solder, and soon.

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The melting points of the lead free are only 50* or so higher than the
50/50.  I doubt you'd ever know which you were working with unless you
looked at the spool's label.  Very experienced people probably can tell by
how the solder melts and flows.


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I dunno about patina-ing lead-free solder.  It might work...or not.
Experimenting is the only way to know if you'll like it.  Did you ask your
retailer about what to use?

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but,
work.

60/40 person?   What sort of a perversion is THAT?   Heh, heh.
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Re: Solder properties? Irons?

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;>)

Lol, I can't think of a faster way to get totally roasted by an established
NG.  But, I can't promise to never argue:)

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Thanks, that certainly covers Canfield and they seem to be the most popular
and available manufacturer.

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go

If lead free solder is not significantly more difficult to work with then
why not?  Prohibitive cost and/or inferior results is what comes to mind.

Looking at the Canfield site...
Canfield Silvergleem is certainly in the upper realm of cost for that bit of
silver it has.  They also offer Pewter, which is less expensive but has a
duller grey finish to it from what I have read.  Maybe there is not enough
market share in stained glass for competition to occur and bring in some new
alternatives.  I wonder about stepping out and using a lead free marketed
towards mass production of some kind, of course, it may not be available to
a retail buyer.

BTW, any adults getting a serum lead screen should also get the Zinc
Protoporphyrin test as well, as you probably know.
For those that don't:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/zpp/test.html

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flux

I was hoping that if I just go ahead and start out using it as a newbie that
it won't seem anymore difficult to use than the leaded type.  My concern was
that with the higher temps and the slowness of being new, I might "create"
some broken glass until I work up a bit of experience with it.

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I'll ask about lthe lead free this week.  I see them suggesting/selling
60/40 by Canfield to others in this class.

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Not sure, but they seem to enjoy it and perhaps there is a video available
;^)

Thanks for the info.



Re: Solder properties? Irons?



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It's probably just a case of me being stuck in my ways....and now I get to
be stuck with IV chelation therapy a whole bunch of times as payback.   I
probably use less solder per dollar of sales than anyone in this group.   I
don't really care what the solder costs...just that it will do what I need.
I need to grab up a roll and give it a try.  I'll stop by Homer Depo's and
see if they have any.  My local retailer isn't "local" unless I wanna drive
25 miles.

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I didn't know about it.  Thanks.   The chelation isn't heavy metals
specific,  it'll grab onto the zinc, cadmium, arsenic, and whatever else the
SO has been feeding me.   ;>)  Have you been watching the Lynn Turner trial
on Court TV?  She just got convicted of poisoning her former husband with
anti-freeze.  While that trial was going on,  I did a repair on the front
door of one of Cobb Co.'s law enforcement officals' homes.  He was telling
me that they had inquiries from some county in KY because Lynn Turner's
grandmother had died under similar circumstances about 9 years ago.   Guess
who the heiress was?

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Maybe that's why the Hutmeister is having problems with his production of
training tapes.  He was watching the 60/40 duo perform and got the remote
all sticky.  ;>)

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You be welcome.



Re: Solder properties? Irons?


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the

Clearly, your lead exposure was significant and possibly included some
physiological symptoms as well.
Maybe your SO needs a little break from the kitchen?
I wish you well with the chelation.
This is an article on Occupational Lead Poisoning a couple of docs wrote a
few years back, it is geared towards medical professionals, but still has
some good info in it.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/stauding.html

Have you been watching the Lynn Turner trial
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Guess

Oh my.  Grandma, hubby, and boyfriend...scary stuff.  Maybe my relatives
aren't so bad after all.

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Thanks, I'll never think of 60/40 in the same way again!

My retail shop says they haven't found a lead free they really like.  They
have the Silvergleem by Canfield, I think $25 per lb. it has 4% Ag.  They
have a less expensive one but are not happy with it at all.

I did a bunch of web browsing and hope to find a lead free that is workable,
has nice finish and cheaper than $25 lb.
I just ordered a couple of pounds of lead free silver bearing solders to
experiment with from Johnson Mfg.  I got IA-423 and 425 and a sample of
flux.  Should have it in a few days, but no chance to try it out for awhile
as I need to do a bit of travel.  The seller admits they won't follow the
iron quite as nicely as the 60/40 but reports they are nice looking solder
and that I will get used to it.  Ha, I am not even used to the 60/40
yet--I'll report back after I get a chance to play with it. I did finish a
14" Victorian panel as my first project and am actually pretty happy with it
:-)
Properties for these solders are at the site below if anyone has interest
http://www.johnsonmfg.com/temp/solder.htm




Re: Solder properties? Irons?
You're chasing an impossible dream.  The quickest way to convince
someone to continue using lead, is make them work with lead-free
solder.

Re: Solder properties? Irons?

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Alternatively,  the quickest way to get someone to work with lead-free
solder is to have a blood lead level test come back >50 when <10 is
"normal".



Re: Solder properties? Irons?
I seriously doubt such a reading came from stained glass work unless
you were fool enough to be eating the lead instead of soldering it.

Check the ingredients in "lead-free" solder and you'll find many
contain cadmium and mercury - both enormously more serious than lead.
The lead-free advocacy movement has nothing to do with health and
safety - everything to do with economics.  The economic improvement of
those companies wanting to sell lead-free alternatives.

Consider it a move to improved efficiency.  Instead of poisoning
yourself slowly with lead, you can get the job done quick and slick
with cadmium and mercury.

Re: Solder properties? Irons?
as was pointed out to me in a different forum:

http://www.acnem.org/journal/15-2_december_1996/skin_absorption_of_lead.htm

http://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/leadsafe/leadinf3.htm

which state that some lead can be absorbed through the skin.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

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Re: Solder properties? Irons?
The propaganda that lead can be absorbed thru skin pores while being
handled was debunked many years ago.  As was the more recent bunkum
that lead heated to 800 degrees created a vapourized lead that could
be inhaled.

Ya gotta eat it to get into ya.

Re: Solder properties? Irons?

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I'm sure the CDC and EPA will be glad to have these nuggets of  wisdom.  Did
you think this up all on your own?

What you DON'T  know about lead poisoning is monumental.  You are as
misinformed and wrong as you typically are about most things you post here.

Take Will Roger's advice :  " Never miss a good chance to shut up."






Re: Solder properties? Irons?
On 5/21/04 7:24 PM, in article
snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, "Dennis Brady"

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Lead additives in gasoline was proven to directly to contribute to high lead
content in city dweller's blood.

You do have to ingest lead - but breathing in lead particles in fumes from a
solder pot is possible and does happen.

Sorry.


Re: Solder properties? Irons?
On 5/22/04 9:19 AM, in article BCD4CBA1.4E0FE% snipped-for-privacy@nospam.netcom.com,

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Forgot to add - that if you put a hood above your soldering irons and solder
pots, you will reduce the possibility of inhaling significant lead
particulates in fumes.



Re: Solder properties? Irons?
Bromo wrote:
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Organic lead compounds, such as tetraethyl lead are readily absorbed
through the skin.
--
Jack


    http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo /

Re: Solder properties? Irons?
On 5/22/04 9:59 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@xmission.com, "nJb"

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Didn't know that - thanks for the info.  Worse than I thought.


Re: Solder properties? Irons?

.  As was the more recent bunkum
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   Where do you get this stuff Dennis, comic books? Of course you get lead
poisoning via lead fumes. That's an undisputed fact.  Do you actually do
much soldering without a fume mask? Are you old enough to remember auto
mechanics getting lead in the bloodstream via inhaling fumes pre lead free
gas?  I had a mechanic friend who was afflicted twice, and had a hell of a
time getting it back to normal.  I had an elevated lead level, and reduced
it to a normal range by wearing a fume mask.

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
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Re: Solder properties? Irons?
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Interesting...being that lead doesn't vaporize to fumes till around
2000 degrees. The fumes from soldering are from the flux. Perhaps your
elevated levels are coming from something else?

Andy

Re: Solder properties? Irons?

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lead
free
a
reduced

According to the guru at CDC......

"Their" theory is that minisicule droplets of molten lead are carried
upwards in the "smoke" from the flux, similar, I guess to burning embers
being carried up in the smoke of a big fire.




Re: Solder properties? Irons?
So far nobody has been able to validify that "theory".  Odd, because
proving it would be as simple as collecting the vapour and measuring
its lead content.

It's especially odd this "theory" still floats around considering
metallurgists insist it's impossible to vapourize lead at the
temperatures we work at.  Some myths live forever.

Re: Solder properties? Irons?

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Frankly,  I'd much rather put my faith in CDC's lead abatement and
occupational health people than anything you have to say on the subject.
These are people with a hell of a lot more education, experience, and common
sense than you display.






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