Tempered glass alternatives?

Yes you can use plastic, but it will not last as long as tempered glass. It will become scratched, difficult to clean and likely yellowed.

While I don't know why the tempered glass died, it did what it is designed to do. Lots of small pieces that are not likely to cause serious injury. The glass in your car is made much the same way. On rare occasions the stuff will do what yours did, but it is safer than the alternatives.

Are there no plastics that are quite hard that will resist scratching? Obviously not glass-hard, but something that will at least resist the odd scuff mark?

_Serious_ injury was avoided, but the shower was in use and the bath had an interesting mixture of blood and shattered glass in it - most unpleasant. Picking glass shards from my wife's feet was something I never thought I'd have to do!

... except plastic? I appreciate what you say about plastic lookig dirtier after a while, but I'd rather dirty plastic and no blood, than to have to go through extracting glass splinters from my wife's (or my!) feet again.

Off topic: An interesting pre-Good Friday Agreement signature. :-)

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Lexan?

All of the plastics scratch and discolor.

Tempered is your fastest, easiest go.

You can ask about laminated glass. I don't know if it is made thin enough to fit shower framing. It is like your windshield.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing. . . . DanG

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to avoid

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would be safe

Will do - cheers!

According to Mark :

Laminated glass often isn't nearly as tough as tempered, many of them are just as brittle as glass. The only advantage is that the shards are (mostly) contained.

Tempered glass is amazingly tough, it'll stand up to just about anything.

Probably the door had a manufacturing defect. The next one won't do it.

Plexiglass would likely last until the kids are old enough to be safe. Clean without abrasives - special cleaners probably available. Wipe down after each use to keep from getting water minerals/spots on it (if you're really ambitious. I'm not.)

I lived in a home once that had a combo storm/screen door, with plain glass (unbeknownst to me) in the lower part. My son, age 1, was standing by the door watching the older kids outside playing. One of the kids outside started bumper her rear against the door from the outside. I heard a noise and came out to find my son still standing there with a 2' shard of glass leaning against him, because the glass broke. The pointed end was about neck level on him. Not hurt. Mom scared :o)

While I worked in a Naval Aviation Depot grind shop, a grinding wheel exploded, injuring the machinist who was operating it. The testing phase for a shield impervious to grinding wheel explosions involved me taking some lexan out and shooting it with various firearms.

Yes, lexan (about 3/8" thick, IIRC) is quite literally bulletproof as long as you're talking relatively slow handgun bullets. (.38, .45, etc.) A .22LR did penetrate however. (Velocity counts more than total energy.)

Lexan does get quite scratched up in an environment with lots of grit and abrasives, but I bet if you used cleaning agents no harsher than toothpaste, you wouldn't cloud it up much. Then again, as a shower door, maybe you'd actually want it cloudy? Get the Ajax!

Since there was lexan all over the place for cockpit "bubbles" there wasn't a cost issue per se, but I got the idea that lexan is pretty pricey.

Mark, I spent nearly 10 years in retail glass and we did a lot of new installs, as well as replacement for shower cubicles, so came upon many instances of this type of breakage. You didn't mention if it was one panel of several, framed or frameless, or how long it has been used prior to the incident, which can have a bearing on the best option, but will try to cover a few scenarios . . .

Without a doubt toughened should be your best bet. Never even seen a toughened panel breakage in a cubicle. It just shouldn't break with thermal shock of hot water hitting cold glass etc, and unless the edges are exposed (the weakest point) it should withstand quite strong hammer blows ! One reason I'm not a big fan of frameless doors is that a fairly moderate hit on the edge with a hard object can cause toughened to break. A very sharp impact can break toughened, eg we did lots of patio sliding door replacements over the years after someone had mowed the grass. Likely scenario is a small stone was flung and hit the glass, sometimes they explode much later in the day when temp changes caused thermal contraction or expansion.

As Chris said, it was most likely a manufacturing defect . . . but how long was it in situ before the incident ?

Laminated will be mildly safer, as the interlayer will hold the glass together quite well. It is commonly used in cheaper versions of cubicles in either 5.38mm or 6.38 thickness, but is weaker re impact, and hot water on cold glass will sometimes cause thermal breakage, but not quite as easy as the older out of date wired glasses. Bear in mind, with lam there would very likely still be some small splinters come from the break line (spalling).

Lexan (5mm or 6mm) could be your best option, it is tough, even moreso than toughened glass for impact, and should present no issues with safety. Just a cleaning / appearance issue over time, but that is minor compared to the other option. Some things to consider. Are there other panels you would need to change also ? Lexan is very expensive compared to any of the glasses mentioned above.

As one other poster mentioned, you could use laminated glass. If it's too thick to fit into the existing door frame, you might have to buy metal to build a new frame. Most commercial glass shops can provide the materials, or do it for you.

It's an industry myth that tempered glass breaks into nice safe little bits. A significant percentage of those little bits are little spears

- capable of doing very serious damage. Ask any police officer, fire fighter, or paramedic that has attended vehicle accident sites how "safe" tempered glass really is. There's a VERY good reason it's prohibited for use in windshields. In almost every country on earth (outside North America) it's also prohibited in ALL vehicle windows. The only reason it's still permitted in the U.S. is the companies that make tempered glass maintain an intensive lobby to ensure they can sell it.

Most U.S. states have even been convinced to enforce tempered glass for passage doors. Almost everywhere else permits laminated as an equivalent alternative. Other places don't have the same lobbyists. Tempered is stronger - laminated is safer. That's why most glaziers refer to it as "safety" glass.

Should fit ok, most toughened panels (at least in Australia) are 5mm, so

5.38 or 6.38 (without the gasket, neutral cure silicone it in) is reasonably easy to fit (for a handyperson, use a pro glass shop if not).

Yeah, both lam and toughened is a Grade A safety glazing material in commercial and domestic situations here in Australia, toughened can be very sharp and it would be very painful to walk on it for sure, but the idea is no big shards to cut arteries.

We still have toughened in autos for side and rear glass, but have had lam in windscreens now for many years.

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what is needed to atach hardware?

Tom Baker

There are plenty of plastics that you can substitute for glass and never know it just from looking at it.

Plexiglas and Lexan are good alternatives, are easy to work with, and can be purchased at your local home depot.

After reading every post in this thread, I believe I have come up with the answer!

Two words...................................

Shower curtain.

You can get em in any color you want, You can even get em with dingle balls!

Randy Hansen SC Glass Tech Scam Diego Comi-fornia

However, that's thick Lexan. CDs are made of polycarbonate as well. Take an AOL CD and fold it - it will shatter. Polycarbonate's strength is a function of its thickness. It's definitely not unbreakable.

Mike

Copying your original message. The two primary flat plastics are Acrylic (Plexiglas) and Cyano .sflsdjf (Lexan) Plexiglas is commonly available at hardware stores and is cut on the same device (with a different cutter) as glass. Lexan is much more expensive and is generally available only from plastic companies in anything larger than a foot square (when used for router tables, for example) I paid nearly $100 for four 1/8" pieces to make up two 3' x 5' storm windows on the front of my house facing the street across an open porch in a mildly risky neighborhood. The other windows, without the porch, are 5-8 feet off the ground and their storm windows are acylic or glass. Lexan is tougher than Plexi but softer and it will sag more than Plexi with a constant load (as in router table plates with the router attached.) Plexi is brittle and will crack if wrongly drilled or hit and will get more brittle with age. Failure is less catestrophic than glass usually a few big pieces.

Thank's for the detailed response. The shower door was newly installed just before I moved into the house. That would probably make it about 3 months old at a guess and was used roughly twice a day. It's (or was) a frameless door.

Is toughened the same as tempered or is is different to both tempered and laminated? (I'm a glass newbie so please excuse the ignorance!)

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Yes, this sounds like a good option. Worth the cost and I don't mind that it leaves water marks as glass does this anyway!

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Very understandable! Neither standing next to a 2' shard of glass or walking on thousands of tiny glass needles are pleasant. I think one of the plastics (Plexiglas or Lexan) sound like the best bet.

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