The Dying SG Retail Store

Not to mention the hazardous material thing. It's a trend alright but that can be good and bad. Bad because it'll be harder to find jobs, good because it'll be harder for clients as well to find people who can do repairs and/or custom work. There will always be a market for specialized services and the people who can provide that service. There's always people on the look out for nice things made by real artists that don't look like item C on page 137 of XYZ's catalogue. Too bad for the many, including myself, who can't find their way into that niche. Too bad for the many who have been, but now find themselves on the verge of being excluded from that niche. I guess the trick is in trying to decide if you can afford to wheather the storm. From some show on tv, "the avalange has started, it's too late for the pebbles to protest..." Here's hoping all you fine folks will stay afloat, Bart.

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I refuse to buy anything made in China...whether it be junk stained glass items or glass itself. Armstrong glass has a warehouse near where I live for great prices...however, when I went there all I saw was boxes with the name China on the sides.....screw that.....I wont buy Armstrong glass.........for that reason. They shut down USA factory and now have all their glass built in China.

Kitty

glass.........for

Well, you are right that Armstrong has their glass made in China. What you didn't say was that the State of Georgia and Georgia Natural Gas basically ran Armstrong out of business with their restrictive regulations and high gas rates. Armstrong had been making glass in the Chatahoochee Industrial area of Atlanta for years. The taxes and environmental nonsense later forced Armstrong to move to Jasper, GA and make glass there for a while. The lack of a US energy policy and the GA legislature's de-regulation of natural gas rates allowed Georgia Natural Gas to basically gouge Armstrong to the point of submission. I know the president of Armstrong personally, and he and I have had this discussion several times. It wasn't by choice that Armstrong had to go off shore to get the products made, it was a matter of survival.

The glass that Armstrong is bringing in now is actually being made on some of the same equipment that they had in Jasper, GA. The lehr and one of the furnaces were moved to China. All the formulae are the same as what Armstrong had been using and one of Armstrong's long-time employees is now full-time (almost) in China. He is there to supervise and do the quality control.

Understandable sentiment but that's not the solution, is it. When imported into the U.S., or whatever country, tariffs are levied. Customs people, importer employees, moms & pops in SG stores all make their paycheques processing & selling it as do the folks making their art with it. Along the way many sales taxes are collected as are employment insurance premiums which pay other local people's pay cheques and blah blah blah. But, like I said, it is an understandable sentiment... Like Johnny Carson said a long time ago when the U.S. automanufacturers were laying off bunches of people over the import car issue: "you can always get a job unloading Toyotas at the docks." But that too, don't quite cut it, does it... Yup, I sure hope there'll be a way to figure it to anyone's advantage. Keepin' them crossed, Bart.

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awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:

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My wife is a stained glass artist. Yes, she orders some supplies online, and even picks up some at Hobby Lobby. But she also patronizes retail stained glass stores. Not the one in the large city where we live, because the people who run it are unpleasant and they charge ridiculously high prices (high compared both to stores where we used to live, and to the stores mentioned in the next paragraph).

She travels about 100 miles to a considerably smaller town, where she patronizes two retail stained glass stores--one of them less than a year old. Stores that offer merchandise at fair prices and treat their customers well can thrive even in today's business climate. This is the same point the previous poster made.

in article snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Kalera Stratton at snipped-for-privacy@strattonhome.org wrote on 6/11/05 11:31 PM:

I have seen the glass at Hobby Lobby and it is substandard. It is also from China. I refuse to use it for 2 reasons: 1]--its from China 2] so many defects makes cutting miserable and wasteful. I rather pay higher prices for good ole Spectrum or other high quality glass. Business can stay competitive without going to China. Again, that's why I refuse to use Armstrong glass even if its GIVEN to me! If you think its ok---check it out. You will find all kinds of defective and contaminated glass. Be careful with EBay as well. I wont buy anything that's been made in China....but you have to ask. There are many great sellers on EBay who build their own stained glass and are in USA. Others import the junk from overseas [China] and sell it very cheap. This hurts Americans. Why ? Because we need to charge what it costs to build SG here in USA as we LIVE on the USA economy--not the Chinese economy....but consumers expect my projects to be as cheap as Chinas stuff...I say NO---I live here and pay using the USA std,,,,,,I do not live on China's economy---sometimes they understand--sometimes they don't. I don't care.

Kitty

If this is seen a second time, please let me know, I posted it once before, but don't think it made it for some reason...

I believe , and it is my opinion that......

"stained glass" experiencing a downward trend in popularity amongst crafters, the cycle is believed to be 20 year stretches, from folks I have talked to, it may be another 5-7 years before it gets seriously popular again. It reached its height about 5 years ago, when people had to "invent" (stepping stones, etc, methods other than traditional) other mediums for the glass world, it was the handwriting that things were in a downward spiral. The interest by the public was subsiding, just a matter of who can hang on until it goes back up. Now the retailers must get creative.....but the people who view themselves and what they do as "art" will always need a supplier, their interest is not passing....

It goes deeper than the Chinese glass issue. Which came first, the wholesaler selling to retail customers, or the retailer not ordering enough from the wholesaler forcing them to find other income? The retailer has been bled the last decade from both, imports and the wholesalers double cross. Java's 20 year cycle may be part of the problem, but there are no shortage of lamps being sold on QVC, and doors with SG panels in them at Home Depot. None of us can compete with this stuff. The retailer has reached the end of scuffling for ideas to keep the store open. Lamps, panels, boxes, kaleidoscopes, stepping stones, classes, supplies, jewelry.... what else is there to do? Remember your local hardware store? Stationery store? Grocery? Clothing store? Can anyone forsee them coming back when they have been replaced by super store chains? Guys like Java and me will be in business until they carry our bodies out the door. RIP stained glass retail stores....

This is a little long winded, if I upset someone, better skip on...

While I agree with the general direction of the above mentioned statement, there will have to be some changes in how we do things also.

I have been doing this too long to do anything else, I know how to do other things but my body says I shouldn't do them, so there needs to be another solution. That is what I am weighing myself.

I have a "storefront studio", business has been OK, but it has been better, in terms of profit and volume. I was one of those guys that wanted to be a "purist" and "do" the work, not manage people who do the work for less than I would do it. So "way back when" I should have gotten larger and put a good crew together and get out there and do alot of churches, spread out and hit the road. (there are only so many churches in my area) I didn't do that, I did the custom entries, (still do that on occasion), restored original Tiffany windows, lamps and desk pieces for a collector/dealer and made a living doing it. I enjoyed it all. I learned alot of different things but what I didn't do was sock money away for NOW.

I foresee, and predict, that the small studio business will become like the carpenter or brick mason. These guys go out and work on the job, or have a small workshop in their home to "pre-build", or construct, then go out on the job and install.

The economy and the cheap imported items, whatever they may be, will drive the small storefront studio into the "basement" creating more "basement bandits" that can cut prices because they have no or little overhead and they want the work so they can pay their bills. The fine craftsman with the wealth of knowledge, will not be able to afford all the expenses of a storefront. Rent, taxes, utilities,taxes, insurance, advertising, taxes, and labor, with taxes, insurance, and all that is involved. and yes I mention taxes alot.

So the problem doesn't just involve the retailer, it is a just like a mudslide, the retailer is just on the edge at the moment, some will go over, some will not, same with the small studio.

I just figure the more I know how to do, the better off I am, somebody will need to have something done, and I will know how to do it, and the last few years have proved that point to me. It has not been easy, in fact far from it, but I haven't gone over the edge, and don't intend to.

This is just the latest fad to attempt to hang on. I speak to 50-100 retailers every week. Most are hurting big time. Fusing is small time compared to what we used to do. We used to make lamps, windows, sell tools & supplies. Kiln work is just another passing thingie that will dry up as well. Especially when boatloads of beads & jewelry come over from China for .10 each. Start looking for the next trend Dennis.

Anybody know of or have a list of glass manufacturers and where it's made? I now have to (mostly) buy mail order as my local shop had to close up temporarily, and what I buy doesn't have the little 'Made in China' sticker like everything else made there...

I am missing you point? Glass made in China does have the little sticker, but it is removed. Chances are the glass you "were" buying is US made, but having the manufacturers list,(which is readily available online at

doesn't do much unless youplan on buying alot. multiple cases, alot...Buying online should save you money, and give you access to glass you couldnot get before, but psu.edu is where? PA? Hmmm manufacturer right down theroad?

You get advice and assistance the same place you buy your supplies......

What you say is true about the corruption in Fulton County but Dekalb is

Well...you are right.....the difference between Fulton and DeKalb is non existant. SWMBO wants to move from the East Paulding area into Sandy Springs to cut down on her commute. Fat chance. Even though it would be more convenient for both of us, I'm not about to contribute to Apelanta's tax coffers. If I never went inside I-285 again, it'd suit me fine.

I have managed to build a SG business that makes me a 6 figure living. I, too, thought that there'd be no way to survive in the SG business. It can be done, and with minimal investment.

So screw them. I don't care. I have seen

I've been in that store a few times. He does have a good selection, it's just too far away for me to go there regularly. I didn't think his prices were all that good, I was doing a job nearby and needed a piece of glass that I didn't have with me.

There's always the danger of cutting off your nose to spite yer face when you get into the parocialism of where a product comes from.

Here's my input. I have quit doing supplies completely, no lessons, just shows and commissions. My prices have gone up in keeping with cost of materials. i find i can easily sell the more expensive, bigger pieces (because the rich folk still have the dough) but smaller items won't move at prices that reflect current materials cost ( competition from Chinese imports??) So, i am doing more expensive things and still making a living but i have had to reduce overhead to the point of creating my studio in my new (about to start the foundation) home and plan to eventually do away with my shop. Times is tough, but i intend to hang onto the edge of the cliff by my toes if necessary, and keep trying to adapt as the economy changes. I just hope it doesn't take the whole 20 years for the economy to recover and glass to become popular again!!! m

Hobby Lobby carries Spectrum and not Chinese glass. They buy direct from Spectrum and have it chipped to a central warehouse where it's cut up and shipped out to about 350 stores. They also carry Rack Packs from Spectrum which is also divided up and put into stock. Two companies that manufacture glass in China are Armstrong and Houston's Gecko glass along with several companies that manufacture clear textures. None of which Hobby lobby carries.

well I beg to differ. If you check the glass at the Conyers store you will find second rate glass that's so crappy Spectrum wouldn't even admit to making it! I know Spectrum and that aint it.

Kitty

Yep, kilnforming and lampworking too... mark his words, these passing fads are sure to die out in another 5-10 years.

maybe HL carries spectrums OOPS glass or "T" glass? that's the end of run, color not quite right, too many seeds or grit in the glass? I have been getting some really sucky spectrum from my suppliers that has pebbles in it (which of course you don't see until you've finished an entire panel....) and it isn't labeled as T but should be!!! I think spectrum's quality control ain't what it used to be ...m