Using copper restrip

Hi

I am starting work on a 5'x2' transom window using a combination of copper foil, lead came, rebar, and copper restrip. The transom is composed of 8 squares in two rows of 4, separated by mullions, and I am going to install it against the inside of an existing window. I am planning on using foil within each square pattern, and 3/8 reinforced lead came connecting all 8 squares of glass patterns, along with rebar over the lead came joints.

The copper restrip that I am using is VentureTape Copper Reinforcing Strip (5/32", 10mil thickness). I have heard from some people that, like rebar, in order to be effective, copper restrip must run

*continuously* from one end of the window pattern to the other.

Is this really necessary?

Due to some of the zig-zags and curves in the pattern design (which uses some 6-8 inch round agate slices, can I apply the restrip in 3-4 sections (e.g. 12-16 inch sections of restrip) that run across the pane and get the same result instead of having to insert a continuous

30-inch strip of copper restrip and pressing it in between all the foiled pieces?

Has anyone used both restrip and rebar in a window of this size before?

TIA!!! J

Sounds like overkill to me. This panel is smaller than what one usually finds in a full-view door. Doors get a LOT more abuse than a transom ever would, and especially one that is protected with mullions and muttins and doublestrength on the outside. You are going to be spending a lot of extra time and effort for no reason.

Just frame the panel in some 3/4" zinc and stick it in the hole.

I can't comment on too little or too much without seeing the design, but I post this "Tidbit" on zinc.

Time has taught me to "fill" the lower hollow part of the BOTTOM zinc outer bar with "something" (hardwood, steel rod, more zinc, etc.), as the zinc will slowly collapse over many years if I don't....unless I have adequate steel rebars set into the framing around the panel to support the continuous weight bearing down on that bottom zinc. Just thought some of you would appreciate this tidbit..... or learn it "my way" yourself...hahahahah ... know what I mean?

101 days today..... 6" powder on Mt Baldy and a couple of 'first track' runs... again!. Nice way to start my day....now to go solder a zinc/lead door panel 31x71", which is about a one man 'handling limit'. Apparently I'll have to wash the flux off this one out in the blizzard ... oh well, too bad...LOL. Tomorrow... another powder morning in the forecast... ;-)

Say.... here's a Question for ya'll: RE: applying steel rebar. I usually solder the bar directly onto the panel itself for ultimate rigidity. However, some folks solder wires to the panel and then wire the panel to the rebar during installation. I'd be interested in others' opinions and experience on this method, as it would simplify 'some' aspects for me. Thanks!

cheers, SkiDog (aka: Jacques Bordeleau)

I routinely handle and flip over panels this size by myself and never give it a thought. It's when I begin to work on 48x48 and larger that I begin to want some help. I can do an intact window that size by myself, but if it is one that I'm repairing and I have it partially disassembled, I'll for sure have a helper just to insure no further damage.

Apparently

Steel or zinc rebar? I've been using zinc rather than the steel because it solders so much better. And bends easier, too. For the applications I have, zinc seems so much easier and I don't think there's enough loss of strength to be concerned. At least, not across a 28-30" wide door panel.

I've used mostly steel rebar, Moon ... either 1/8x3/8" or 1/8"x1/2 (really tough to bend). I have some old glass pliers with notches in the jaws meant for bending flat rebar and they really work well... but not seen that model in ages, so I'm stuck with the 2 pair I have now. A vise is a great assist, and they also make a bending bar that essentially is 3 pins on the end of a steel handle... also pretty effective at reducing the strength needed to manipulate it (and I bend them to follow my lead lines, almost never spanning open glass areas).

I used brass flat stock rebar for a brass came door panel once, and have seen 1/4" brass rod used on medium leaded panels. I used to think zinc was stronger than it is, and would now worry about zinc rebar, but never having worked with it I am guessing. I know for a fact that the steel I use doesn't move... ever. The zinc would be the ticket for smaller panels with intricate bends, no doubt.

Does anybody have experience with the "wire-on" method I mentioned before?

(looks like I'll be washing this panel in the blizzard after dark, at the rate I'm moving now ....LOL)

cheers, Powderhound

Moon, it occurred to me that I'm soldering my steel rebar to the panels with my 200 watt Hexacon iron. The steel rebars heat up pretty quick with that hog, and I make sure to clean or grind for fresh metal first, even using the pre-tinned steel rebar (usually), which are nice. I am somewhat referring back to the thread on Weller irons below....

cheers, JB

While I don't have direct experience, I consider it the "standard" method once a certain size is reached - the steel being welded or riveted to the side and bottom frames. I have been told and assumed it was the standard method for cathedrals and other large windows.

Reinforcing

No, you don't need to run the restrip right across, provided it is buried in the seam - it really isn't strong like rebar Buried in a seam, it will provide stiffness across what might otherwise be "hinge" lines, but there is no extra benefit from having it as a continuoius line

Lots of questions.

"Rebar" basics.

1- Round bars ties on to windows with wire are called saddle bars. 2- Rebars do not support/hold up windows. 3- Saddle bars are to prevent windows from being blown into the building. When installed properly the wires are about a 1/2 turn loose. This is to allow the window to move in the wind. 4- Soldered on flat bars help keep the window from bowing if installed at the proper location. IE perpendicular to hinge points. 5- Restip , steel inserts,reforce lead are generally placed full width or full length. This in effect WILL create a hinge. 6- When making a design with squares (like original question) weaving the lead will make the strongest window. Weaving lead crosses only 2 pieces of glass horizontal and is bisected by a vertical lead covering 2 pieces of glass. Thus no straight through lead line. Adding soldered on rebar will increase the strength of the window. 7- Zinc bars soldered to a lead window may cause a galvanic reaction which in time will "rot" the lead.

The wire ties? Are they soldered to the lead, or are they mechanically fastened, too?

Thanks for the good info Vic.... I know you exceed my experience by several factors. However, to point #2, simple physics indicates that rebars do indeed provide additional support for portions of a panels' total weight, '*if* the rebars are soldered on & bedded into the surrounding framing. That may not have been the original purpose (re: wind) but a vertical support effect cannot be discounted if bedded rebars are present. A similar situation: I've used "soldered on"steel rebars to add support to 'skylight' cieling panels many times. Those same panels would be sagging quite a ways by now, I imagine, if such reinforcement was not present. The additional strength and rigidity after attaching the rebars is clearly obvious, to me anyway. As always, these benefits depend on design and execution.

cheers, Jacques Bordeleau

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It's common to see window deflect around horizontal rebars. Both in and out in a serpentine fashion. Once a widow start to deflect (many possible cause) the rebar typically gets torn from the lead. The lead breaks around the solder joint. Same thing happens with tied on saddle bars. The wire and the lead around them just tears out. Vertical rebars do indeed help support a window as they can transfer weight down to the sill.

Skylinghts/laylights are a whole different animal. Rebar should be under the panel to help support it.

In all cases, rebar does not negate the need for good design and technique.

Ties wires are best embedded into solder joints. If face soldered to the lead flange they will eventually tear the lead. The wire is then twisted around the bar. 14 or 16 guage copper wire in normal. Flux and tin the wire with a small solder ball in the middle of a 6" (or so) length of wire.

It is important to understand when you are designing the window. Rebars/saddle bars should NOT be after thoughts. They NEED to be designed into the window for proper solder points.

I think copper restrip is as valuable as router coolant and your appendix.