why i hate e-bay

Ok. so i finally decide to jump on the wagon and give e-bay a whirl. i found the generator i needed to run lights/fan at my art shows and bid. i was the only bidder and won it. i tried to do the pay-pal thing but to sign up you fill in a form that instead of allowing you to fill it all out then submit, requires you to wait after each field is filled out and the whole page refreshes. ( my jargon may be awkward) at any rate after about 15 minutes of this i decide to go with a money order. i send it off, wait and wait, then get an e-mail from the seller that they don't have the thing. (they had a bunch more also up for auction???) so they tell me they will send me a refund. NADA zip zero ripped off. try to go to e-bay and they say they'll look into it but you won't be allowed to know the results as it is private. so end of rant. got burned my first time out of the starting gate and thought i should share as i never hear the downside of e-bay being bandied about! m

Reply to
Michele Blank
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Michelle, that's a terrible thing to happen, and I'm glad you let us know about your experience. While I'm sure there are many happy ebayers out there, it is experiences like yours that will eventually give ebay a bad name. In the early days, it was great, but now it's just become a fantastic way for con artists to rip people off.

Reply to
Tess Farley

I use EBAY often, about 500 auctions closed......... I have sold a lot of glass and related stuff to this NG. I have not had ANY MAJOR PROBLEMS, as either a buyer or seller. Sometimes the "rules" are cumbersome, but over all EBAY has helped me to "get rid of" over 3,000 pounds of glass. About one week ago 3 auctions of mine closed for just under $10,000.00 for Jerry Garcia lithographs. The bidders were very happy to get a chance at them. EBAY and PAYPAL sure took a bite, but.......I also, and the owner of them all got a little fatter, too.

As a general rule, I check the feedback, if I am not sure I DONOT BID! ALWAY CHECK and or ASK about handling/shipping charges, too. CARE TO POST THE NAME/ID OF THE SELLER?

sorry if you got burned, especially if you are a first time user, not all of "US" participants on EBAY should be painted with the same brush.

Howard

Reply to
Howard
Reply to
Edward Hennessey

I have some friends that recently got burned as well. In their case he was selling a guitar. He was asking 1500.00 for the guitar. A buyer sent him a check for 3000.00. They contacted the buyer and was told that it was a mix up with another E-Bay purchase. The buyer said "he trusted them" and asked them to send the balance back with the guitar. ....You guest right, the check was bogus. Not only did they lose the guitar, the bank made them cover the check out of their personal checking, AND dinged them for NFS fees for the check.

Buying or selling you got to be careful!

Sorry, I hope they catch these guys.

Take care,

Randy Hansen SC Glass Tech Scam Diego, Comi-fornia

Reply to
Randy H.

Greetings and Salutations...

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:54:18 GMT, "Michele Blank" wrote:

First off...sorry to hear that your first experience on Ebay was a bad one. Ebay is one of those arenas where it IS the newbie that gets burned, both because they don't always understand the dangers, and because they don't understand the (arbitrary and somewhat capricious) rules that govern it. For example, a chunk of the folks that sell on Ebay are surplus recyclers. Whatever they have now, they may or may not ever have again. Now...a thought or two about the transaction, in no particular order. 1) Did you request that the money order be returned by registered/insured mail? If so you would have had, at the least a tracking number, or, at most, would have been required to provide an ID and a signature to pick it up. 2) Even "regular" mail can be tracked, sort of, if it has been a fairly short time since it should have been mailed. 3) If the money order was, indeed, mailed by the vendor back to you, and has disappeared in the mail, you should go ahead and fill out the paperwork at the local post office indicating that it has been stolen. The Postal Inspectors do care about this, and, more than likely, if YOUR MO disappeared, other things have vanished too. You may not get it back, but, at least you will make life miserable for some Postal employees for a while. 3a) When you DO go down to the Post Office and fill out the "lost or stolen mail" form, be sure to print out copies of the emails confirming that the vendor sent the Money Order, anything that shows their address, and attach this info, with a copy of the receipt for the money order, to the forms. 4) It may be that the vendor has been slow about sending it. I suspect that refunding money drops fairly low on the priority list of most folk, so it might take a week or three to get it into the mail...then there is the usual delay at getting it to you. How responsive has the vendor been to your Emails now that the transaction has gone south? 5) Depending on how long ago this purchase was, there may be some things you can do about this particular transaction on Ebay. Ebay does have a "non-performing seller" complaint form that you can fill out. Trust me...the sellers care about this, and sometimes if they have been a problem to deal with, simply mentioning that this can happen will get action. 6) Unless it has been too long (60-90 days, or so), you can leave negative feedback for the vendor. Of course, if you DO, you will likely get a retalitory negative feedback, which could be a bad thing. The good news is that it is worse for a vendor than it is for a buyer. 7) I suspect that the generator was probably a couple hundred dollars or so. That is enough that the $10 or so that the money order folks will charge for canceling the money order and returning your cash to you will be worth it. Hopefully you got a Western Union or Postal money order, so you will have a receipt for it. If you got one from a "convenience store", though, and your only receipt is the cash register printout, that might well be a bit more of a pain in the butt. 8) If it does look as if the vendor has actually ripped you off, you can always file a complaint of fraud with their State Attorney General. Frankly, this will only get you a nice form letter saying that it has been noted, and, inviting you to come to their state with a lawyer and have all the fun you want pursuing the case in the courts. However, this can be a hidden "gotcha" that will bite the vendor on the butt if they ever run afoul of the law, etc. Also, of course, filing a complaint with the BBB in their state is a fairly simple thing and worth the effort. Of course, this should be the last resort, as it IS pulling out the big guns. 9) Although Paypal is not without its problems, it is a simpler and less painful way to send money to another person than most. It sounds as if you might be connecting to the Net with a dial up line (and God help you if it is through AOL *smile*). If this is the case, it might be easier for you to find a broadband connection to use in the sign-up process. While I don't recall the form being that slow to use, it has been some years and I am sure they have screwed with it, and made it more painful for those with slow connections (It seems to be the rule of the day). I would suggest either your public library, or a cyber-cafe. The former will be free, of course, but, might have time limits that make it harder to get through the process. 10) Be sure to read the feedbacks for a given vendor on Ebay before buying anything from them. That public record is an easy way to see how others have fared with the vendor...and will likely be the road YOUR transaction will follow. I tend to avoid low-feedback vendors, as it makes me a bit nervous to send chunks of my hard-earned money to a total stranger with no information on how they are going to act. 11) Post a few specifics here as to who the vendor is that you had the bad experience with, and, what YOUR Ebay ID is, so we can all go see what happened. 12) Ebay can be a good resource but, as with any large flea market, you, the buyer, have to be cautious. Know what you are buying, and know what you would pay out in the "real" world. I have seen a lot of items recently where the starting bid is only a couple of bucks below the "street price" that one can find by doing a simple google search on the net. In one case, I saw an anvil, being sold by Harbor Freight for $70 showing up on Ebay with an opening bid/reserve of $80. Now, it was a 100 lb anvil, made of Russian Steel (and is actually a pretty decent anvil), but, I know that these vendors were trying to take advantage of the enthusiasm of folks on Ebay, and, may well not have had the anvils in hand in the first place. They were taking bids, and having HF drop-ship the anvil to the high bidder. 13) Try to remain calm. A bunch of folks I know "fall in love" with the item they are bidding on, and, so bid more than they had planned in a competition to ensure that it remains "theirs". While this is great for sellers, it is bad for buyers. Remember that there will always be another one, and might be another one already...so if you don't get THIS one, it is not the end of the world. Also, remember...it is not yours until you can tear into the box and get your hot, sweaty hands on it. DOn't love it until then. Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

Caveat Emptor is the rule, especially on Ebay. I also hope that from now on, your buddy will wait for the check to clear before sending any of their own money out. Either that...or send the original check back via FedEx/UPS/Registered Mail, and, request one for the correct amount...and when that one comes in, wait for it to clear. One of my clients sells world-wide, and, has gotten some pretty good counterfit checks in. One check came in that looked like a bank draft, and was almost perfect. The only thing that gave it away (other than the fact it would have bounced eventually) was that it had been printed with a laser printer, and, some of the color came off on the inside of the envelope as it was being mailed in. "Trust but Verify" (Probably one of the FEW things that Pres. Reagan and I agreed on). Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

HI Michele

I'm very sorry to hear of your bad experience with Ebay.

I've been buying and selling on Ebay for a couple of years now - and only had a handful of bad experiences.

Paypal is probably the safest way to pay for an item - they were having problems over the last few weeks, and there were a number of complaints on the Ebay 'boards' about slow response from the Paypal website - the sign-up process is generally very fast.

A good place to find help is the 'Community' section on the Ebay site

- this contains a number of forums populated by ordinary Ebay users - I'm assuming that you are in the USA - so

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will take you into the"Trust & Safety (Safe Harbor)" section.I think you should probably repost your message to the Ebay forum -but before you do so it might be wise to read the Rules for Posting -
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postings that don't conform can be 'pulled' by Ebay's staff.You didn't say how long you have waited for the refund....?There is a 'Non-performing Seller' process - and a 'Feedback' process- the feedback is public and warns other Ebayers to avoid 'dodgy'sellers. If sufficient Ebayers register their complaint then theoffending seller will have their Ebay account closed. If they areprofessional scammers then they'll start up again next day under a newID - but that's a different matter. I'm afraid that Ebay is just like 'the real world'. 99.9% of the people out there are basically good & hones - but it's the other .1% that you've got to watch out for. Don't give up on Ebay because of the one bad experience - post to the SafeHarbour board (keep it calm and factual - otherwise you won't get any help ) - and you'll be surprised at how helpful most people on Ebay are.....

Good luck Adrian Suffolk UK

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

This is more than just an e-bay fraud. I recently got two e-mails that purported to want to buy equipment or art glass from me to ship to Africa. Aside from the fact that I didn't have either to sell, offers like this have come up in discussion groups where the people send a check for extra money and "trust" you to send the extra money and the item back, but they really need your product now to open their store, gallery, business, so please rush.

Reply to
Mike Firth

Waiting for the check to clear isn't sufficient, either. If the check bounces later due to NSF, the bank will take the money back from you. Hard to believe--you'd think that's what the bank is getting paid for--but I've heard it happening a number of times. The most common version of this scam is to send too large a check, which clears, get the seller to send a Western Union wire for the balance, then cancel the check.

Mike Beede

Reply to
Mike Beede

well, i used a bank MO and as soon as i figured this out i checked with the bank and it was already cashed. I tried to e-mail the sellers but their e-mail was non-responsive (as in disconnected). Their supplied phone number also disconnected and i did a search for their home addy and phone and again, phone disconnected. i filed with e-bay for non-compliance but they told me outright that i would not be given any results of their inquiry as it would go against their privacy deal. so i guess i pretty much need to kiss that money by-by! m

Reply to
Michele Blank

Sorry about the hard-earned lesson. :-/

DM had a lot of excellent advice, however he put #1 way down at #10. The feedback rating is there so you can get an idea of the seller's reputation. You even have to be wary of that however. There have been people who sell a couple dozen little kitchy $2 items in a week or two to get their ratings up. Once they have that score of 24 sales and 100% approval, then they put the non-existent multi-hundred dollar merchandise up.

When looking at feedback, look at how long the seller has been an eBay member. Look at the score, the perentage that represents, and sometimes I even go back and read what the negatives had to say about him. For a large ticket item, also look to see if this is a first time sale on this type of item or not. Feedback can't tell the whole story, but it can give you an overall sense of how well this participant plays on eBay.

I think we've done about 50 transactions, and that's been spread out over a few years. Of those, only 1 was a bother at all. I bought an espresso machine and grinder from a guy in Colorado when I was in NH. It was February, and he didn't drain the boiler. Sub-freezing temperatures + enclosed water = cracked boiler. He did send it USPS insured, and to my surprise, the Post Office did reimburse me, albeit after jumping through a bunch of hoops and waiting some three months. In such a case, I'd have expected to send the machine back to the seller for a refund since it was his fault it arrived non-operational after all. He should have been the one doing the paperwork and waiting for his money. (Supposedly he was on vacation and didn't have access to any of the paperwork.) Not really a negative outcome, just a bit of a bother.

Anyway, I figure one less than stellar experience out of 50 or so isn't too bad. Unfortunately, I never did get to leave feedback on that one, since the transaction had already fallen off before it was finally resolved.

Our latest eBay purchase was a potter's wheel. The guy only had a feedback of 2, so under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have bid at all. Lucky for us, everyone else felt the same way. We were the only bid, got an excellent price, drove down to Tuscon (we're in the AZ White Mountains) picked up the wheel, paid cash, stopped at Office Max on the way back to buy a new monitor (there's nothing even resembling an office/computer store within a two+ hour drive from here) and went back home. Some people might say the

4 hour drive cancels out the good price, but hey... we had to get a monitor anyway. ;-)

Physical inspection and pickup is really the only way to go when you're looking at a feedback rating of

2, and a purchase price of any substantial amount.
Reply to
Steve Ackman

Hum...perhaps I am confused then. My understanding of the "check clearing" process is this: 1) SOmeone sends you a check. 2) You take it to the bank and deposit it. 3) While the bank may credit your account for the amount of the funds immediately, the money is typically "on hold" because the money is actually still in the account of the check writer. 4) At some point, usually within the next 24 hours, the computer at your bank communicates with the computer at the bank of the writer. At that point, that computer debits the writer's account for the amount of the check, and, YOUR computer marks the funds in your account as being "confirmed" and freed up. 5) The endorsed check is sent to the writer's bank, where it is filed away and used as an audit check that the correct amount has been removed from the account..

In the case of foreign banks, it is the same basic steps, but, may take a bit longer due to the need to exchange more data before the appropriate accounts are debited and credited.

Now...in my world view...the check has not "cleared" until step 4 has finished up, and at that point in time, the writer cannot "cancel" the check, as they don't have control of the funds any more. That is why a lot of folks put a ten day hold on sending stuff out from Ebay when paid for by personal check...to give all these steps plenty of time to work through.

In any case, my immmediate inclination upon receiving a check for too much money would be to contact the sender, return it via trackable post (or have them void it and I will destroy it), and request a check for the exact amount of the transaction. I am not a store and don't make change. Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

a little more........

Have you ever overwritten (by a LARGE AMOUNT) the amount you owed to some one on a check? First red flag. Second never send merchandise until the check has cleared and then a few days. Even with paypal, if it is funded by a CC, I usually wait for a few days. Many seller's will specify no funding paypal with a CC I also clear out my PP account often.

I am thinking about opening another checking account for paypal ONLY and then removing all assets from there into another account that PP does not have access to.

GOOD RULE TO OBSERVE (without being overly paranoid) THE TWO MOST HONEST and of course TRUSTWORTHY PEOPLE in the WORLD ARE: YOU and I, BUT at TIMES, I WONDER A LITTLE ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!

H
Reply to
Howard

That is good, in that the bank keeps records of the transactions for quite some time. Don't know about Ebay's response...but it would not surprise me. They can be royal pains in the ass when dealing with problems. I have never had much luck with their problem resolution process myself, although I have only had to resort to it a couple of times in 200+ transactions. I suspect that is going to be one of the things that ends up with them under the thumb of federal or state regulation if they don't watch it. Now...since it sounds as if these were scammers, it becomes more important than ever for you to take the time to file a complaint with both the postal authorities, and, the State Attorney General against them. If they ripped you off, then they likely have ripped others off. If you have access to an inexpensive long distance service (many Cell Phones have unlimited long distance, for example), it would be a good thing to call the police in their town and talk with a fraud investigator. There is a fair chance that these folks have a case being built against them. They will likely want copies of all the documentation about the transaction, including faxes of the money order, etc. Speaking of which, you may be able to get a copy of the BACK of the money order, where they endorsed it, from your bank. That will help a lot in terms of a fraud complaint. You may not be able to get your money back, but, with a small amount of effort, you can certainly make life uncomfortable for some folks for quite some time, and, may well keep someone else from being ripped off. Oh yea...by spending a bit of time looking at the closed auctions for the vendor, you can get contact information for other folks. You could try emailing them, and seeing if they got ripped off too. If so, and if they have not done so, get them to file a complaint with Ebay, and, include THEIR information in your communications with the authorities. The more data that these folks have, the better their case will be. Also, when they see that more than ONE person has been ripped off, their view of the case will move from "here is one, whiny person upset about a deal that did not live up to their expectations." to "Hum...this vendor IS engaging in criminal activity". Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

*smile*...My story is that it has been my experience that folks remember the LAST thing they are told...and not much else. regards Dave Mundt
Reply to
Dave Mundt

I was suprised, too. My use of the word "cancelled" was incorrect. There is no cancellation involved, just delay.

The general idea is that funds must clear in a certain amount of time in the United States. If the funds come from overseas, there may be a crack during which it isn't clear that the funds are in fact not available. Here's a couple pages talking about it. Notice that last one is from the Department of Justice.

Mike Beede

Reply to
Mike Beede

Like all things, there are some bumps in the road. Fortunately if you buy/sell from a good feedback Ebayer, 99.9% of the time all works out greatl. I do a huge Ebay business, and very rarely have any probelms at all.

Reply to
jk

I just saw what looked to be a GREAT video tape on making molds for kiln work available on eBay....;>)

Reply to
Moonraker

"> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:54:18 GMT, Michele Blank wrote:

Sorry you got hooked. Maybe it's temporary, in that some of the advice you got was pretty good about getting the cops involved, etc.

Just as a thought...this was right about the time that Hurricane Charley was ashore, right? Anytime there is something that is in demand due to the season (eg. kid's hot toys for Xmas) or a natural disaster, etc., you can be sure the rip-off artists are gonna be out there.

That's why when I sell...it's only to US citizens, to a verified address, and only payment from a direct debit from their bank account by PayPal, and I require an adult signature for the UPS delivery. I refuse to ship via USPS or FedEx because of the problems I've had previously. When I buy, I look at the feedback, but more importantly, at the length of time they have been registered with eBay. I rarely will buy from newbies...unless it is a cheapo item and then I'll ask them some inane question in order to see if the reply comes from the same email address that eBay has. I absolutely WILL NOT pay for anything unless I use PayPal, and if I am even slightly bit edgy about the transaction, I'll spend the extra $$ for the eBay's guaranteed money back if not satisfied program. (Forgot what it is called). I bought some beveling machinery from a guy in Brooklyn and I was a bit nervous about him...you know how those New Yorkers can be. ;>) So I spent the money to get the "insurance" from eBay....and the guy shipped the next day, and the stuff was better than the photos. But better safe than sorry on a big $ transaction. No way am I gonna mail a check (a good one, BTW) and run the risk that they can "wash" it and fill in a different amount. And I have too much to do to be messing around looking for a place to get a money order. Legit people have checking accounts and therefore, access to PayPal. People who won't accept PayPal, and with low feedback usually get passed over as far as I am concerned when I'm bidding.

Reply to
Moonraker

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