OT: Another appeal to my Australian friends.

Just put Senator Steve Fielding into google and there is more than enough about him - bit of a nut case it looks like.

I'm not convinced by this climate change stuff, see

If you will read what I wrote, you will see I am looking for the reaction of ordinary Australians. If you can direct me to some way I can get this by using Google, I would be grateful to know how. Jim.

If you go here - their equivalent of CBC - you can find Parliamentary Reports, people comments, all sorts of things. Look through programmes like local newscasts, or Bush Telegraph - National Interest I have heard all sorts of stuff on the latter, it reflects Aussie life quite well.

Albeit that I'm unsure what exactly an "ordinary Australian" is, I might qualify under some parameters - and I can concur with the response writer that Steve Fielding is a bit of a nutcase, and as an engineer by profession he should be capable of being better informed. I've not heard the one about him forming a Climate Sceptics party, my memory is vague but I do recall that there was an unusual set of events that led him into parliament in the first place, and it is extremely unlikely that he'll get a second term. Most Australians have ignored Steve Fielding's antics and posturing, and very little of what happens in our Federal Parliament has direct impact on our day to day lives. Similarly most informed Australians can not doubt climate change - my own summers in Western Australia are getting hotter and hotter, and each year we seem to break records for heat waves. My winters are drier and drier with rains starting later and later. WA has always lacked water, thus we have adapted to living on low water usage between winter top ups - now these winter top-ups are remarkably less than ever they were.

I could bang on about this for pages and pages - suffice it to say that anyone sceptical about climate change is welcome to spend a couple of summers here or take a trip though what used to be productive farming land where rain no longer falls to see the effect for real.

Joanne in Perth, Western Australia

If you go here - their equivalent of CBC - you can find Parliamentary Reports, people comments, all sorts of things. Look through programmes like local newscasts, or Bush Telegraph - National Interest I have heard all sorts of stuff on the latter, it reflects Aussie life quite well.

I think the attitude of most Australians is that the climate is changing. Just to call it "global warming" is an oversimplification. Perhaps it's not evident in Canada yet, but something sure has been happening here for many years - hotter, wetter, drier, you name it. Where there is disagreement is whether human activity has anything to do with it, and whether human intervention can do anything to halt it. As for Sen Fielding, he'd be considered by most to be on the "fringes" of Australian politics. That's about as politely as I can put it. J

'ey Johnno! Nice to see you posting - hope everything's good up your way? Down in N'cle, we've been having the coldest, wettest winter in everyone's memory and it's not much fun! My back yard is like a loaded sponge and I can't feel me toes or, for that matter, the end of me (rather shovel-ended) nose!

I agree with your polite comments about Sen. Fielding. He's a bit of a dag all right. I also agree with your comments about 'whether human activity has anything to do with it'. I really don't think we know enough or even have enough evidence to compare with what we *do* know.

I can recall summers during my childhood when schools were closed and we were sent home because of the extreme heat. Local roads used to melt and sections of them would be suddenly closed so the RTA could spread gravel to soak up the runny bitumen. I guess there's no question about weird weather patterns, but have we (human beings) been taking measurements for long enough to ascertain what's 'usual' and what's 'freakish' in the longer term. More importantly, what amounts to a permanent, irreversible change? Over geological time, I mean?

The way I look at it, geological time is far longer than the brief period of human existence on earth and we simply don't know whether the present warming effect isn't a perfectly normal and cyclic phenomenon of global warming and cooling. Not only that, but the galaxy (including our sun) has only a finite lifespan and who knows that we aren't experiencing the normal and logical progression of a galaxy in its mid-life (or even end-life) stage?

I can say that where I live (a 'western suburb' or lower socio-economic part of a largish city), most people don't give a continental about global warming. We're hard enough pushed to stop them from littering! Most of my friends are very conscientious about being clean, energy-efficient and frugal with the use of power, water etc. However, I don't think 'global warming' as a topic is really very high on many agendas. Not in my neck of the woods, anyway. It's a shame, since humanity seems to be steadily losing touch with the processes that make our life and lifestyles possible. Lots of of us have never even thought about them! As I've said many times before, I honestly don't know why landscape/atmosphere systems isn't taught in primary school, but that's another soap-box, eh?

Best wishes to you and your DMum - school hols on yet? Ours started on Monday. ;-D

Personally, I think that we, as a species, don't really have the wherewithal to "destroy" Mother Earth. We certainly can destroy ourselves and our way of life here on this lovely rock. In the long run

-- the geological long run -- once we are gone or have destroyed ourselves, Gaia will slowly go about her business of healing herself of any damage we might do to her. What really makes me laugh is the fact that the cattle living on the earth today put out more methane, etc. (the bad stuff that messes up the air) than all the cars currently in use. I *think* that bit of trivia came from AvWeek but I have read it in several places now. I'm not saying we should blithely go about screwing up the things we seem to take for granted, like clean air & water and unpolluted seas and land. It's NEVER to late to start to reduce, reuse, recycle and be more cognizant of the often limited resources we are taking from Mother Earth. I just don't think whole segments of a population should accept every new theory that trendy "science" comes up with. We humans didn't

**cause** global warming, etc. but we are certainly doing our part to help nudge it along a bit. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

PAX, Tia Mary >^;;^< (RCTQ Queen of Kitties) Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their whiskers! Visit my Photo albums at

"Nickname unavailable" wrote .

There are things that have been very evident in Canada--loss of ice mass in the Arctic with resultant loss of polar bear habitat, changing migration patterns of the great Caribou herds, and diminishing of those herds. Exactly why is probably complex, as you say.

Dawne

Hi Trish. Great to see you online. Actually I tried to ring you yesterday, as I hadn't seen any sign of you for ages, but the phone went straight to message bank. I was going to call again later, but forgot. Well, I got into a long discussion with a visitor about Mac computers. I'm wanting to get a new laptop, and I'm wondering if Mac is a good way for me to go.

As for climate change, it's a natural phenomenon, and it's happened many times. However, I would find it difficult to believe that human activity over the last couple of hundred years has had no effect on this natural process. I'm coming to believe that in fact we're a couple of hundred years into a new period of mass extinction. I suspect that over the next few thousand years, perhaps less than that, the vast majority of current life forms will become extinct. Of course the world will survive, and new life forms will evolve, as has happened after the earlier mass extinction episodes.

It bothers me that when forecasts are made about temperatures or sea levels in a hundred years' time, people just say "Who cares? I won't be here." We can't afford to be that uncaring about those who'll follow us.

Johnno

Also, as someone who uses both Macs and PCs I'd suggest you go to a Mac store, and also check out PCs. The Macs definitely set up more straightforwardly, they're pretty plug and play. Albeit, the basics may be a bit more expensive than a basic PC - however, you can do some research on comparisons with PCs, speed, etc - on Consumer Reports.

I've had little reason to replace my Macs, essentially, none - for long periods of time, and had great reliability with the Operating systems, support, etc. Never had a virus.

For whatever reason, Karen has repeatedly in discussions brought up her specialty software not running on some colleagues' Macs. However, when questioned as to it it's an older machine (not on the current Intel chip) - she doesn't answer. The older machines required a PC emulation program to run Windows for programs requiring a Windows OS. The current machines (for a couple of years now) are all on Intel chips that will run Windows, natively. The Macs default is to come with the Mac OS. But you can install Windows (whatever recent version you have/need) if you must run Windows only software. And the software will run seamlessly. I know many people, colleagues, and friends, with newer Macs who also run Windows on their machines, with specialized software. The options are good - you can run in Mac OS, Windows, or split a screen and run in parallel (which could be a bit slower).

I have Office for the Mac, which lets me save files so they're compatible with Windows versions. And a lot of graphics software. DH has a Dell laptop for work - we swap a USB hard drive from one to the other - it's pretty seamless.

So, me- if you want something that's close to take it out of the box and run

- I'd go for the Mac. They come with some really nice software for calendar stuff (iCal - which even the computer guys on NPR rated on top), mail, iPhoto- good basic photo program - and a bunch of other stuff. Plus if you're local to an Apple store, then you can bring in your existing computer and they'll transfer all your files to the new machine at no charge.

It's a fun thing to shop for - we have a bunch of friends that have both types of machines. The iMacs are really nice for a one piece kind of desktop machine, and of course the laptops are lovely. Do some shopping around - as to what you need for the money - don't be deceived by the ads on either side. Personally, I really don't know anyone who has switched back to a PC from a Mac - but I think you need to buy what suits you.

Ellice

Many thanks for the comments on Macs. The person I was talking to is an IT professional, and also a mad keen Mac user, and he said that people who change to Macs usually wonder why they didn't change earlier. I'll give it some more thought.

Johnno

I was probably on the phone to Mum. I've *finally* managed to pick her a bunch of rhubarb from my garden and she rang to say how nice it was (she stews it and has it on her Weetbix). Can I just say 'bleargh'?

Oh my stars Darren! (Samantha Stevens, copyright 196something)

I *love* Macs, but I don't know whether you'd be in the mood for a learning curve at this lite stige. Macs are far easier, far more polite and *far* more in keeping with your quirky personality (LOL!) But to be honest, you'd be looking at a whole change of software ($$$) *and* a period of adjustment, which you might not relish at this moment. Mind you, you've got a whole term to go before end-of-year, so it mightn't be that big of a problem. Not being negative, just devils' advocate. You know how I love Macs!

Yep. I'm with you on that one. Evolutionarily, species have been through many of these periods of flux and it has always been a time of paucity followed by mind-boggling diversity. The earth's been looking after her own for a lot longer than we know about, that's for sure. Having said that, though, I agree with the Global Warming camp that emissions and other pollutants (hot water/steam, acids, nitrogenous products etc etc) all need to be firmly capped and soon. The fact remains, whether you believe in GW (my jury's out - I really don't have a complete opinion either way) that greenhouse gases and their ilk are simply toxic. As you know, my own opinion is that a return to a slower, simpler, humbler way of living wouldn't hurt the developed world. But that's just me. ;->

Yep! Selfish attitude. A line from one of my favourite poems springs to mind:

'And for all this, nature is never spent; There lives the dearest freshness deep down things; And though the last lights off the black West went Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs'

Sigh. Isn't that lovely? Gerard Manley Hopkins.

PS. How come your tag thingo says 'Nickname unavailable'? You are utterly and irrevocably 'Johnno'!!! IMHO. ;-D

Nickname unavailable wrote:

As with anything, it depends on what you need. I have been using Mac laptops for many years and love them. My family has been Mac only for I don't know how long. My husband works professionally on unix machines, and likes that the Macs at home have all the unix functionality, since OSX is built on a flavor of unix. I work part time as an employee of a government contractor who's all Windows, and part time as a consultant exchanging documents and graphics regularly with my clients, most of whom are using Windows. I don't have any compatibility problems sharing documents. Sometimes I'm using MS Office software, where the compatibility is seamless (e.g., Word, Excel, PowerPoint). Sometimes I use Mac-only software and convert files because I enjoy working with the Mac software more (e.g., Pages Word, Keynote PowerPoint) or because the Windows software isn't available and I don't feel like running Windows on my Mac (e.g., Graffle Visio). In the last few years, I have not had any problems converting documents when needed (in particular, Graffle Visio works great, which I love since I hate using Visio). When I do need to use a Windows-only piece of software, I can run Windows native on my Intel-based Mac and I have not encountered anything that does not run as it should, which is as I'd expect given that Windows is running native (no emulation) on a chipset for which it was designed. Running Windows natively is indistinguishable to me from running Windows on my work- issued Dell laptop. Truth be told, however, I use Windows less and less on my Mac. I've always kept that option available to me because I never wanted to be caught in a situation where a client needed me to use a Windows-only program and I didn't have the capability to run it. It's been years since that's happened, so I'm not even sure I'll spend the money to purchase Windows next time around. The only times I've run Windows on my Mac in the last few years is to check out some Windows only software that piqued my interest, but nothing grabbed me enough that I went to using it on a regular basis.

To me, life is much more pleasant in the Mac world. I do spend a significant amount of time on Windows machines, as that's what's on my desk at work and that's what my work- issued laptop is. I am perfectly capable of getting the job done on a Windows machine. However, when I'm working from home, the only time I use my Windows laptop is when I need to VPN into my work network (only allowed from company issues machines). If I just have to work on a document, I will always use my Mac--and for some documents, I'll actually save them to work on at home so I can do it on the Mac where it's easier.

Lately, my work machines have been more robust than my Windows machines of the past (fewer encounters with the dreaded "blue screen of death"), but I still have more issues with them than with my Macs. I find maintaining the systems easier on a Mac. I find migrating to a new computer much easier Mac to Mac. I've never had to deal with a virus issue with my Mac. I find dealing with networking issues much easier on my Mac. My husband (the network security specialist sys admin of long standing) will not allow a Windows machine on our home network. Something to do with his opinion of their securability.

Lastly, we tend to be the "go to" family for many of our relatives, friends and neighbors when they have computing problems. My experience with that has been that the Mac families have fewer and easier to solve problems than the Windows families. For selfish reasons alone, we therefore encourage everyone to go Mac so we have fewer panic-stricken calls for HELP! ;-)

Of course, all the above is one person's experience, and yours might vary. I don't think Windows is evil and to be avoided at all costs, and you can certainly get a Windows machine cheaper than a Mac. However, no way would I give up my Macs in favor of a Windows machine at this time, and despite the fact that much of my professional work is Windows-based, I've never had to. Oh, and I'm very, very hard on laptops, and the Mac laptops have stood up fairly well for me.

Best wishes, Ericka

Trish Brown ( snipped-for-privacy@internode.on.net) writes: (snip)

Sorry, Trish but this is just plain wrong. I agree completely that we must limit toxins as much as we possibly can. But at normal concentrations CO2 is simply not toxic. The more CO2, up to say

1200ppmv, the better plants grow. And they use less water in the process. You may know that people who grow plants in greenhouses often artificially increase the CO2, simply because this yields a better product. Jim.

LOL - that's what most of us say - or that they won't go back....

Ellice

Software changes may be inconsequential. I don't know how it is in Australia, but here, and on the web via the Apple Store - there is an Education store. If you're in school, or your child is, you can buy thru that, and a lot of software is incredibly cheap. I got my Office suite for $89. Also, upgraded all my Adobe stuff that way. And there is discounted pricing for machines.

The other thing - most standard software, like Office, Databases, Photoshop

- run essentially the same way on a Mac. There is some difference in key stroke shortcuts which "power" users notice. My DH is a big-time Excel guy, and will notice some differences with a couple of menus, but it's minor. The other thing - if it's a new Mac, and you have a valid Windows OS that is installable - you can do that and put anything special on it.

Finally - with some of the software companies you can upgrade/switch to the newer version from your older one, and do the upgrade to the Mac OS. Upgrades being much cheaper than whole new versions. All things to think about.

*snipping the rest*

Ellice

ROTFL! Of course you're right, Jim! I was thinking in terms of 'pollution' in general. We (here in N'cle) have major problems stemming from industrial wastes (including CO2, but also including lead and sulphur derivatives from decades of smelting, sintering, cooling and so on). A decade after the departure of our major industrial concern (BHP), the ground where the plant was is still seriously contaminated. So much so that people still aren't allowed on the site!

We have aluminium smelting plants, several major fertiliser producers, coal stockpiling (the dust!!!) and all sorts of minor chemical plants in our (small) region. Effects ranging from chronic asthma to pitting of the duco on cars to depressed IQs of children in lead pollution areas are commonplace. Here in N'cle, we still have gouts and gouts of toxic stuff being puffed into our atmosphere as well as hot, acidic water being pumped into our river. It's getting better, but *so* slowly.

As a teenager in the 1950s I remember the rivers in our part of Derbyshire (Peak District) being polluted with chlorine from the factories that produced printed cloth (Calico Printers Association - CPA). Nowadays those same rivers are pure & clear because all the factories closed over 20 years ago