OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question

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Okay gang - I'm pulsing this oh so unopinionated group - seriously, as I
believe many of you have better or more experience than me, etc, blah, blah.
Warning - this is long 'cause I feel compelled to give some background.

So, our best friends have 4 kids, who are essentially like ours.  All
acknowledge that we're closer with them than any "blood" relations.  3
girls, 27,23, 18 & boy almost 26.  We're extremely close with the 3 oldest,
the youngest is the thankfully gotten more mature, difficult ADHD with
serious hypochondria issues (but smart).  The oldest girl & brother have
been really, really close forever - and the next girl almost as close since
the later teen years.  Brother got engaged in August to the long-time
girlfriend who is also about 25 - they met at VA Tech, and are ardent alums,
with lots of friends from college & high school still in the area.  He was
one of the partying type - even if an engineer - and they're great.

Wedding planned for Memorial Day weekend - all good - Sat. afternoon.  His
parents are very, very, very conscientious of treating their kids like
adults, being responsible & most of all not prying.  This is to the point of
often abrogating the "parent decision" thing.  Comes from a good place - but
he was an only child, very poor, with a stepmother and father who'd come
from Europe.  She had a big family, great parents, but when younger, her dad
was very strict, and very kind of overbearing as to what should be done - so
she's quite sensitive about meddling - and a socially kind of shy person
(not in the work world - just the strictly social one).   I'm helping them
with the rehearsal dinner (as I've done lots of special events for them),
and the son had actually asked me to do this with his mom.  In general these
are very generous, social welfare conscious people.  Just kind of space
cadets with the mundane.

Here's my dilemma:
Last night was over there hanging out (DH was doing high school hockey
marathon in the area).  Youngest kid there with other teens - so all
pleasantries, etc during dinner.  After kids gone we're finishing our wine,
chatting about the wedding.  The dad says "I just follow orders."  OK, then
we talk about the rehearsal thing - which is now at 1 pm on Friday (way out
in the country at some manor house) and they're thinking about a brunch.  We
talk options, and I point out that perhaps just brunch for those actually in
the rehearsal would be okay, but not for the "rehearsal dinner" as many of
the close out-of-town friend/family won't be in yet, and suggest maybe an
earliesh, relaxed dinner, so that then the younger set can go out and do
whatever & the older folks (like us) can hang out.  So far so good.  Then
mom says I need to take her for a dress - she has an e-mail from the bride
whose mother is considering having alterations done to a black dress she's
already worn to have it tea/cocktail length.  OK - I'm surprised.  Dad says
he's already been measured for his tux - great.

Now...I say "so, are the girls excited, have they ordered dresses?"  To
which the reply is..."They're not in the wedding."  My eyes flew wide open,
to my big "HUH???"  Mom shrugs, and the dad says, well the couple are doing
what they want, and, well, you know, they have a lot of friends, so....I
don't think the girls are offended.  I say "well, was it the 3 (as in
including the youngest) or none thing?"  They say, no, just they have a lot
of friends.  I'm trying not to blurt out something, and then the dad says
"Well, I gather they were asked if they would be offended first."  Huh.  I
know no ill feeling was intended, but I really was surprised.    Came home
with DH from the rink, and as we're eating the midnight supper, I tell him
this.  He completely freaked out for the girls.  Point being that it's not
about them being offended but having incredibly hurt feelings.  Plus, just
asking someone if they'd be offended implies the offending decision has
already been made.  We know these people well, and years ago she wanted to
ask people if they wanted to be invited to a kid's bar mitzvah before doing
the list - to which I told her "you don't ask people that - either they're
important enough for you to invite and then they'll respond - or they're
not."  So, these girls would never tell their brother that they're offended
- but both DH & I are really a little concerned that the parents missed the
boat, which the brother totally bypassed about their feelings being so hurt.
These kids are all in the same age group, socialize together a lot, and for
goodness sake - the bride only has 1 sister.  So, now what they haven't
thought about is we think the groom's sisters have absolutely no role in the
wedding.   Evidently the parents didn't even suggest to the groom that he
should ask his sisters first, and let them offer to not be in the wedding if
it would be too much, and to show they have value in his life, and future
life.  These are the girls that asked me to give the fiance a piece of
jewelry when I was divesting in the fall.  DH's first response - these are
his sisters - maybe don't ask the youngest, but the other 2 should be in
there before the gaggle of friends.

So my dilemma is - to I suggest to the mom something about being sure that
the girls feelings aren't hurt? For her to mention to the brother that the
sisters should have some role, value, in the wedding - seriously - the groom
& his family are part of the wedding as well.  Cause as it stands they are
totally on the outside looking in when that wedding week comes along, and I
just see a lot of hurt happening on the side.   DH thinks we should find
some way to broach the subject - I've already laid the thought that at least
the rehearsal dinner is the chance for the groom's family to show their
graciousness, etc.  Ugh.   Or are we (whose only child is a furface)
overrecating 'cause we love all these kids?  Honestly, I think the parents
just didn't even think about making sure that the son also takes into
account the feelings of his own family.  I'm sure it just blew right by.

Thoughts????

Ellice


Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/14/2012 11:05 AM, Ellice K. wrote:
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Ellice,

I have been in the wedding industry for a VERY long time. It is common
for the bridesmaids not to be the siblings. Often they are asked to
participate in other ways (such as presenting the guest book, doing a
reading at church, presenting the gifts at the alter, or singing a song
at the service.)

The bridesmaids are the BRIDE's choice and it is possible that she has
her reasons. I have seen both brides and grooms to have honor persons of
the opposite gender as well. It may be that there is a limit to the size
of the wedding party that would make it too large if she included the
sisters.  The persons chosen may be very dear to her (sisters of the
heart??).  Many brides are not intimate with the groom's siblings or as
close to them EMOTIONally. This could have been a hard choice for her.

I would let the matter lie. The dynamics within the family are influx as
the newlyweds find their new place it. This is what the engagement
period is all about. Will mistakes be made? Most likely, but interfering
will add outside pressure that may disrupt this process.

HTH Bobbie V

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/14/12 11:55 AM, in article jesc1g$an1$1@dont-email.me,

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Yup, I understand much of this.  And personally feel a lot has to do with
the overabundance of ridiculous merchandising with websites & tv, and the
movement away from actual courtesy.  I've been doing events for about 20
years, and have seen the gamut.  For me, I try to remind people about being
gracious towards their guests, and their own family.

This particular wedding is a weird mishmash as the groom & family are very
active with their synagogue, while the bride is a pretty not participatory
Christian.  Not slurring - just how it is.  So, in a really unique twist,
the college friend of theirs that was present at the bar/party where they
met, got a mail-order ordination of who knows what denomination, and is
doing the ceremony, however the county will not accept him as the legal
authority, therefore they're having a magistrate present to sign the
documents.

Just as an FYI, Jewish weddings do not typically have the additional
readings - though someone may be honored with performing certain blessings.
The more standard is that there is a ceremony in synagogue at the Shabbat
services before the wedding, and the groom's family would be honored with
candle lightings, etc.  Certainly there is no such thing as gifts to the
altar, but I have seen songs done.

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True.  Though in this case the reason we're a bit troubled is we know how
close all of them are.  And our reaction was this is one of those situations
where the young bride is falling into the "everyone I was ever friends with"
thing is invited or participating, but as we know - most of those people
will be out of their lives in a few years.  But the family is still your
family.  These are young people that have socialized together for a long
time, visiting at their various colleges, arranging parties together when
they're all in the same town - the bride, groom, his 2 oldest sisters.  When
the groom has been away, the bride has been quite involved even then with
his family - even for the 2 years before the engagement.  I know for a fact
that months ago these girls with the fiance, were excitedly talking/planning
about the wedding festivities.  Hence, I have to think it's an odd &
shortsighted thing to have them with no role whatsoever in their brothers'
wedding - at least the oldest 2.  No issue with the younger one at all.

I think what troubles us most is that we honestly believe it's a sort of
unintentional hurt to the groom's sisters.  The parents really are oblivious
about some things and even if the bridesmaid's are the bride's choice -
isn't there some level of parental guidance or the like put upon considering
the whole picture.    As it is, the sisters are essentially just guests at
their brothers' wedding - and that is not how anything has ever been with
them.  To the point that at one affair I felt that the 2 oldest were having
too much of a say, involvement in the 3rd kid's special event.

For us, at our wedding there was no question that DH's sisters wouldn't be
in the wedding - they're much older, not close, and kind of horrid to me.
In my prior more traditional so to speak wedding, honestly, my DM made it
clear that I had to ask my SIL (DB's wife) to be in the bridal party - and
she was the PITA she is, but I did it, and honestly, it was the right thing
to do.  The other 3 girls were just fine with it, and that's life - but it
honored my DB in some way as well.
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I get your points.  I don't know - DH & I were talking about this over
brunch.  I'll see the daughters sometime soon, and be able to pulse them
about how they're really feeling.  Clearly it's OBE about the bridesmaid
thing, but I'd like to be sure that the parents/groom do whatever to make
them feel included.   The girls/young women are way too polite, and shy of
discussing really emotional things with their parents (they do that with me
- they think the mom is too out there & behaviourally conservative which is
not true at all, and we all know that dad is an example of the smoke coming
out of his ears whenever he is faced with his little girls being not so
little anymore) to actually have told the parents they're feeling a little
hurt, or whatever.  OTOH, they would definitely tell me when they see me if
they're at all concerned, bothered, hurt or really "it's all good."  I have
to take them all shopping for clothes anyhow!

We'll see - thanks for the input.

Ellice


Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 2012/01/14 08:58 PM, Ellice K. wrote:
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I'm afraid if there is any hurt it has already been done.  Having things
changed by someone else won't change that.

Joyce in RSA.

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
   Like Bobbi, I, too, have "done" weddings for years -- alterations,
wedding planning, etc.  Protocol is that the groom's sisters should NOT
expect to be in the wedding *unless* they are very close friends with
the Bride.   Same thing goes for the brides brothers (if there are any)
-- they would only be groomsmen **if** they were very close to the
groom.   It's easier finding "jobs" for the extra men in a wedding (like
the brides brothers) -- they can be ushers.  "Jobs" for extra women are
limited to taking care of the guest book!  As Bobbi said, extra men or
women can do readings or sing and I have been to weddings where there
were several readings and several songs done by different people.
    I'm sitting here wracking my brain because I keep thinking there is
something else a woman could do to help besides taking care of the guest
book.  Even if they aren't involved somehow, you could always suggest
that the groom mention that he would like to have small corsages for his
sisters.  That's a way to let everyone know that they are family and
thus important even if they are not given some sort of job either during
the wedding or at the reception.
    OOOOOOO if the "church" or the bride doesn't have a wedding planner
to assist before the service, the bride could always ask one of the
sisters to stay with the wedding party before the service begins.  Even
if there is a wedding planner, one of the sisters could still help do
all the little things that no one ever thinks about and it IS a very
important job.  Also, someone needs to be there just before the bride
starts her walk down the aisle to make sure her dress, train, veil, etc.
are all laying properly.  Even if there is a wedding planner/assistant,
I have found that a bride is usually in need of close female support as
she is getting ready to walk down the aisle.  Sure Daddy is there with
her but he's, well, a HE, and a wedding planner might be there but s/he
isn't really close to the bride.
    I don't think there is a problem with you talking to the sisters to
find out how they feel.  For all you know, the bride might already have
asked them to take care of the guest book -- which is often done by two
people, not just one.  I *do* wish I could remember what the other thing
is that people are asked to take care of -- VBS.  It's hell getting old
-- LOL!  Anyway, let us know what happens, OK?  I'm nosy and like to
find out how these sorts of dilemmas are resolved.  CiaoMeow >^;;^<

PAX, Tia Mary /\___/\

On 1/14/2012 9:05 AM, Ellice K. wrote:
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Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
I agree with the others...let them figure it out. And if there are no
obvious hurt feelings, don't create them.

There are ways for groom's family to participate. I like the idea of
corsages for sisters of the groom to celebrate them as part of the
"host" families. As another job, as TM was brainstorming, they could be
asked to plan and/or administer the post-wedding departure - bubbles or
rose petals or whatever...hand them out to the wedding guests.

There are plenty of ways they can be involved other than as attendants.

sue




--
Susan Hartman

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/15/2012 4:37 PM, Susan Hartman wrote:
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Pay for them to elope!!!!! LOL Wish we had done that with some of the
family weddings.

Gill

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/15/12 8:44 PM, in article jevve1$v6l$1@dont-email.me, "Gillian Murray"

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Honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised if this had been a smaller thing.

I know there are many ways to involve an extended wedding/bridal party.
That said, I'm pretty sure that the sisters have essentially been left out
of any thing.  My sense is that this is sort of becoming one of those "all
about me verging on bridezilla things -but this bride is indeed a very
lovely & intelligent woman, but it may just be some falling into that easy
trap.

FWIW, there also may well be a cultural difference in the ways in which
Jewish weddings are handled, along with my geographical background than in
many versions of gentile weddings.  So, in my personal experience with
family, friends weddings' of similar background the family involvemenet may
be different than many of you are used to.  For sure, it was astonishing to
me the first time I went to a wedding at some Baptist church in suburban
Atlanta, and it was all about the mints & cake, and the big deal being who
the bride had asked to serve them.  From my little event business, I've done
a good variety of weddings, from huge Catholic weddings to rent-a-clergy the
groom doesn't believe in anything but the bride is half Irish Catholic/half
Lebanese from New England - with 6 siblings.  In that one, they decided to
have only 1 attendant each - her closest sister, and his best man amd just
ducked having to deal with where to make a cut.  And of course a good amount
of Jewish weddings.   And since the bride for this wedding isn't Jewish, her
plans, expectations are different than what his family, background would
present.  Honestly, even the processions are different, with the groom &
bride each being taken down the aisle by both their parents - who also join
the couple under the chuppah.  So, perhaps my experience is a different
expectation.

I actually always suggest to my brides' that they have some sort of flowers
for the immediate family, even if they're not actively walking down the
aisle in the procession.  It's a gracious thing and lets those people know
they are not just guests, but part of the family.  So I suppose it gets down
to my having been raised to remember to be kind & gracious to those who love
you, and all your guests, and this certain idea of joining of families - and
frequently today there is a lack of the idea that hosts should be gracious
towards others, as opposed to the "what are you doing for me" shown to the
extreme in the bridezilla shows.

Anyhow, I'm not going to make any big stink, but I will hear from the girls
what their perspective is as I have to take them shopping.  Thanks for the
responses.

Ellice


Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/16/12 9:16 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net, "Karen C in

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Oh, I get that.  I'm actually really good with florists & caterers.  Doing
the event coordination thing, for me I find that I'm regularly being the
diplomat between bride/family & the florist or caterer.  To get what they
really want & the florist can do, and cut through some of the ridiculous
demands that won't work or make sense.  I've had a bride less than 3 weeks
before the wedding change her mind for the 4th time, then while I finally
work with the florist to get what she wants - being to add some more calla
lilies into the centerpieces and take out some carnations ( which I think
the mother had put in).  Pretty cool centers - they were built down inside
of a glass globe.  Then in the midst of this suddenly the mother starts up
with "I don't see why we have to pay $40 for these - I could do it."
Needless to say the mother does NO crafts, arts or the like, works as a
financial analyst, and has basically left everything to the last minute.
The bride yelled at her, I asked for a minute with the clients & did a facts
of life, flowers and weddings talk - pointing out the time issues, and that
she'd be buying these things at retail even if I got her the globes
wholesale.  We then went on.  After they left, I stayed with the florist a
bit, and fortunately I had gotten there earlier to find out that the florist
was considering tearing up his order from them.  We were also surprised that
the mother came - would've been easier with the nice but flaky bride.

As a rule, the other thing is that good florists will not allow other
flowers to be brought in.  As in the infamous mother of groom who wanted to
go buy extra corsages at Walmart or the like to bring to a wedding.  We made
it very clear that she could have flowers given to whomever - their special
friends, etc - but that they must go on the florist order.  No florist wants
to have some not so good or horrible work be seen at a wedding, and then
someone will ask "who did the flowers?" and be told, without the little
footnote that Oh-, yeah - those extra pieces were by whomever.

Ugh, the things that happen.
Ellice


Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/16/12 1:35 PM, in article CB39D81D.50F0% snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net, "Ellice

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A bunch of stuff.

In the poor netiquette thing, I was discussing with DH this interesting
response, discussion.  And he pointed out to me that he hoped I wasn't
sounding like I was arguing with people.  Not as if that could ever
happen....

So, I just want to be sure that you all know that my responses aren't meant
to argue, but that I've found it pretty interesting to see how we have
different expectations, experiences.  That's all.  And to be sure that all
of you know that I do appreciate your input.

DH gets the thrill of seeing me in person - so he's aware of my frequent
quick talking, and the fact that since I can spin him up in person, knows I
could do it unintentionally electronically - without all those intonation
cues & facial expressions.  So, please - I do hope that Bobbie, Mary, Sue -
you didn't get some bad karma from my responses.  And I apologize if you
did.

Thanks,
Ellice


Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
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for me all these responds have their own reason...

Thanks

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
wrote:

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I just watched the whole thing go by with morbid fascination !  Our
weddings seem so simple by comparison, far less who does what.  Half
the things you mention like the intricacies of corsages and who
becomes a bridesmaid, whoooosh !

That said, I have a big mouth but I don't think I would say anything,
the die is cast and whatever you said, either way someone would be
unhappy with you.  Best leave it alone.

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/17/12 7:05 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com,

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FWIW - I really don't like corsages, and they're not really done much here -
except for the wrist things.  More typically, you'll see folks arranging for
some stems to be carried - not a bouquet - but something simple & elegant
for the mom's, etc.  Just depends.  Personally, I actually think these
things often become a stupid stressful morass instead of a joyous event - my
points are more that the people the couple love, and the couple stay feeling
that way and don't get hurt, overwhelmed over easily handled nonsense.

Personally - I'm pretty straightforward for my own functions.  Doing the
event things for clients is a whole different ball of wax.  I've been told
that the reason I'm good at it is I don't get emotionally crazy, and will
rep the client while working with the vendors.  But, I've seen totally
bizarre things, people getting hysterical over which votives they could
have, a groom almost having the caterer cancel the deal 10 days prior - over
the price of tablecloth overlays (a troublemaking catering employee about to
be canned sent an e-mail saying these silk things would cost $10 instead of
$39, and he wanted that - I actually had worked it out with the caterer to
get them an entire extra bar & bartender for $0, plus the cloths for cost at
$21) which had bride in tears, me dragging groom outside to essentially
smack some sense into him, and after much ado & apologies he signed the dang
final contract.  Uh huh.  Then there was the bride who: spent 6 hours web
searching & re-ordering the little ribbon to tie the stupid little bags of
trinkets for the table because she thought the white on silver print she
already had didn't look good enough - however as this was 2 weeks prior to
the date, she still hadn't picked the music, and was the same one of "let's
change the flowers" fame.  To top it off, at the rehearsal - with 7
attendants - she announced the missing one was fired, it took nearly 3 hours
because no one could actually pay attention, 3 of them made a burger king
stop on the way (although dinner was happening after the rehearsal), and the
bride then got hysterical deciding that she didn't like the music... So the
music director & I swapped music around, made her happy, and got thru it.
I, her dad, and the photographer, managed to convince her that they could
not leave the church, go to downtown DC for photos (not at the monument for
which they had a permit), have the photographer not in the limo, and then
get back....AFTER...the cocktail reception.  Further, she wanted to go out
in Old Town Alexandria before the church for photos...that they'd just find
a good place.  Uh huh.  Yup.  She actually showed up 45 min after the
ceremony should've started ....with all but 2 groomsmen also with them.
Yup.  Only the best man and a couple of other usher wives were on time, the
groom got there about 15 min pre-ceremony.  But, as there was only 1 usher
at the church, no one got seated until the bridal party arrived.  Whereupon
I told them to get settled, fix hair, etc, while the bride started screaming
we can go right now.  No....your mom needs to have her hair fixed, and
people actually need to be seated.  Oh, why were the ushers with her?  They
decided it would be better to not have to drive in case of drinking.  Issue
- they were all staying in the hotel where the reception was to be, and
since they weren't going to be drinking in the church it was doubly idiotic.
Topping this - they had forgotten to pick up stuff for the church the day
before - candles for the stands, some other stuff - so my poor DH helped
out, ran around, and helped set-up, and when 2 usher wives showed up -they
nicely helped me.  Go figure.  I did get a huge, huge thank you and
apologies both at the reception & after.  But, the kicker - the mom still
owes me $350.  Actually, I should've known and not taken the client - or
done something - especially when my first task was to straighten out the
catering manager because "he won't answer our calls."  When I met with the
guy, he was awesome - turned out that these people had their initial
meeting, another meeting, then the typical 30-60 min menu tasting turned
into nearly 5 hours, and they had also now changed the menu twice.  Go
figure - but we got things set, worked thru the na´ve stuff, and it was
indeed a gorgeous wedding.  With no photos downtown or in Alexandria.

The tales of nonsense go on.  Which is why when I was really doing a good
amount of events I tried not to do more than 2 weddings a year, though I
will do the "day of organizing" thing for a flat fee.  That's a regular kind
of thing here - coming in and handling the actual day, which means
contacting all the vendors about 2 weeks prior, and then just handling
things on the day.

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Yup, you're too right. DH said he thinks the 2 older girls will likely say
something spontaneous to me, as they want to arrange shopping trips.

Ellice


Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
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I had heard about weddings that were over-planned by the mother, where
the bride didn't realize what had happened almost until the wedding
was over.  When I got married, DH had already been married twice so
wasn't looking forward to a "big" wedding.  I, however, wanted a day
to remember, though it didn't have to be big.  My mom had been married
in Reno and hadn't ever had a "real" wedding.  Sooooo,  we had a small
wedding with a large audience! :-)  My two attendants were my younger
sister (16 at the time) and my best friend from 7th grade, who was 7
months pregnant at the time.  My mom managed to find a pattern for a
simple dress and fabric appropriate for both.  My two older sisters
(my mom did ask if I was sure I didn't want them also in the wedding)
bought my dress (of the rack / under $200) and helped in other ways.
Frankly, DH didn't KNOW two other guys he liked well enough who would
have wanted to be in a wedding. :-)  My mom hosted the reception in
her back yard.  DH and I had given her our list of people we wanted
there and told her she could then invite (or NOT invite) anyone her
heart desired. :-)  As far as I recall, everyone was happy and I got
my nice day to remember without anyone needing to spend a
fortune. :-)  Makes me all the happier when I read or watch about
other people's nightmares!!! :-))  The wedding IS important but, after
all, it is ONLY a day; it's the years that follow that are REALLY
important! :-)  Ahhhh.  It will be 30 years in August and I can still
gush and babble about my wedding. :-)  Maybe I better go stitch
something. :-)   Good luck, Elice, with the details and the
family. :-)
Liz from Humbug

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/16/2012 8:38 PM, Ellice K. wrote:
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As you said, an interesting discussion to hear other viewpoints. I'm
really not all that "social" an animal, and big parties terrify me. I
was *so* relieved when DD planned her own wedding reception - a lovely,
simple, semi-elegant affair - and all I had to do was bake the requested
challah (her new hubby did all the rest of the cooking!) and relax as a
guest.

I'd been invited to be an attendant in other family weddings over the
years, and was glad when my (hopefully gracious) refusal caused no ill
will. Just not my thing...so I just wanted to bring out that point of
view - that not everyone *wants* to be part of a big wedding! I can't
even stand to watch those ridiculous TV shows or hear "bridezilla"
stories such as you related. No patience for it or interest in it. (I
mean, really, what's a wedding about?) (And please don't say, "oh, about
$30,000!")

sue

--
Susan Hartman

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question

I'm with you, Sue.  My own wedding was in church, but no reception, and
only the essential people in church.  Relatives were all a long way
away. No white dress or bridesmaids, no photographs etc.  That was
nearly 53 years ago, and I've never regretted the lack of ceremony or
pictures.  Or the marriage!

I organised one DD's wedding, much more traditional, but no limelight
for me.  The other had a friend do it, because we lived in different
towns, and all her friends were there.  I just made the dress and cake.

On 2012/01/18 04:54 AM, Susan Hartman wrote:

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Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:54:04 -0500, Susan Hartman

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Spending that much on a wedding dismays me !  What a good start that
amount of cash could give a couple !   Worse yet, what if it falls in
the 50% failure rate - big money wasted lol

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/18/2012 6:13 AM, snipped-for-privacy@fl.it wrote:
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DM & DF spent all their $$ ($$ DGM saved for DF from his Army pay during
WWII) on furnishing their apartment.  DM's parents had very little $$
so my parents were married in the minister's study with only the best
man and matron of honor in attendance.  DM still has some of those
furnishings.

Nancy

Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/17/12 9:54 PM, in article
kvqRq.206197$ql3.25891@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com, "Susan Hartman"

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When I was young I was very socially shy.  However, I grew up in a family
with lots of big dos, and with having the grandfather who was involved with
show business & repping some sports people - that meant lots of parties &
people from all over around.  For me, I'm much better having a job to do.
So, I started doing a lot of cooking and helping execute things when I was
about 11.  In college, I did parties for frats & often bartended.  Finding
that if I have something to do I'm much happier & also can be much
pleasanter to others - as opposed to being frozen.  Your DD knew what she
was doing.  Sounds delightful.

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LOL - you have the best attitude.  The horrid bride (lovely girl otherwise)
who had the "fired" attendant, actually had the same attendant then show up
at the wedding - in a dress about 2 sizes 2 small, with a laced back that
looked like a fire red explosion.  It was something.

Personally, I think that shows like Bridezilla showcase the worst, people
who for whatever berserk reason think they're worthy of some worship, and
then lend to other brides thinking these bad behaviours and tacky things are
appropriate.   Some of my event planning cohorts & I were laughing a couple
of years ago when some wedding planner & bridezilla on the show were talking
about the fee, and for that one it was like $1500 - and that poor planner
did everything.  So, I & this big-time caterer (who has their own planners,
but I was doing this job for the bride/groom) were discussing that was no
Washington DC, or any big city, kind of price.  As our client was jerking
around with the caterer & me - having seen said show.

Honestly, IME too often people get trapped into the stuff on websites, and
marketing and so lose track of what's important.  So, when I do weddings, or
any big parties like Bar/Bat Mitzvahs - I try to bring some consciousness of
the truly important to the clients - and not to waste their time or $$
prioritizing stupid stuff that their guests won't remember, or need.  Like
really, how many cheap plastic frames do you need?  Or my fav - the bottle
opener with the Pope's head on it (for the Italian themed wedding) - which
thankfully they decided against.

Ellice



Re: OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question
On 1/15/12 8:44 PM, Gillian Murray wrote:
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LOL

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