Re: Happiness is

No, actually, she supports talking about barrier methods, but thinks abstinence is best. I think I could dig out the link again. She is pro-life.

C

I would like to see that article. Most of what I've been reading is she believes in teaching abstinence only in schools and that if parent's believe in contraception they should teach it at home.

That would be a great idea if only she could get it to work.

>

I really don't think it is the school's job to teach these things...it is the parents' responsibility. They know better what and when the child needs to learn such things.

OK, I know I am old-fashioned,!

G

Yep, you're old fashioned. That would be ideal IF it worked.

I am totally against censorship and I don't care if TV and movies/magazines sell sex as long as there's an on/off switch. I also agree that in an ideal world it should be up the parent's to monitor what their kids see and hear and what is the appropriate age to teach them. I'm also convinced that such a perfect thing can't always work unless the kid is chained to the house.

Therefore, I really believe that we can at least try to make a difference by making it part of a properly taught hygiene (or whatever they call it today) class.

L

The problem is that parents can't teach what they don't know (and there are some out there who don't know the real facts about such things), and the parents who are too embarrassed to discuss it with their kids, or who delude themselves into believing "not my little angel" right up until angel comes home with a bun in the oven.

I know we like to convince ourselves that kids don't do it till they're

16, but my ex-boss's wife was a labor & delivery nurse and about once a month she delivered a 9-year-old or a 10-year-old. None of whom were named Virgin Mary.

Her daughter is paying a high price for those views. Hopefully the shotgun wedding will work out for her. ruby

"Karen C in California" wrote

Karen It is the 21st C--how about the male little angels who father these children?? Their parents are often just as astonished.

Dawne

"Dawne Peterson" wrote

Sorry Karen, didn't mean to snap at you. I remember all too well the era I grew up in, when girls "got pregnant" (all by themselves apparently) and were thrown out of school, while nothing happened to the boys involved (unless of course they were "forced to marry her"--no one suggested that the girl might be equally forced to do something she might well regret for a long time after). The message was that girls had to be careful, girls had to fight off boys at all costs, etc etc or they would be ruined for life and no nice man would ever want them, while boys were not given any messages about responsibility, and even got a bit of a nudge nudge wink wink. I think that should be left well in a past I don't want to revisit.

I think the time has long past that all kids be taught, and that this not be all about girls.

Dawne

No problemo, you're right, I should've said something about the boys, too, but they can always (temporarily) get themselves off the hook with "not me", "musta been some other dude", whereas the girls it's pretty clear to Mommy and Daddy that yes, it WAS "your little angel", she can't just say she's carrying it for a friend.

In my year, a good friend was forced to drop out of school. The next year, there were so many of them it would've decimated the class, so the decision was made to allow them to stay in school. My best friend called in a tizzy after rehearsal, during graduation, she would have to sit next to a girl who was about to pop, what should she do if the moment came during the ceremony? My advice was, X's dad's a doctor, and four or five of the mothers are nurses, so just point to her and yell "is there a doctor in the house" and let the professionals deal with it.

Yes! My DSD is currently pregnant and her boyfriend has suddenly decided to decamp rather than stick around and maintain their relationship. Dealing with this whole mess has certainly brought back some awful memories for me (was in the same position at around the same age). More than anything, it has highlighted the fact that *girls* carry the can for all this sexual activity! Either they face a life-changing pregnancy and birth or they choose the other path, which isn't easy for *any*one to deal with, let alone a young girl who recently had stars in her eyes about a rosy future that probably included a husband or lifetime companion. The boys shake their heads and make sad noises, but - ah - it's not quite the same as what the girls go through!

As a male, I hesitate to join in the discussion. Let me just note I am pro choice, and believe the only person whose opinion matters, is the female. Our Supreme Court has ruled that, when it comes to abortion, the father has no say whatsoever (Chantal Daigle). I dont think outsiders realize what the situation is like, here in Canada. For just about any woman, when she finds she is pregnant, it is either a blessed event, or a disaster; just about nothing in between. If the former, then she is passed to the appropiate medical personnel, who help her to a successful birth. If the latter, it is similar to a broken leg. You find an appropiate doctor, present your health card, and the pregnancy gets terminated. No questions asked, no permission needed. I dont think parents of underaged girls have any say whatsoever. I know in the UK there is much discussion as to whether the latest time for an abortiuon is

20 or 24 weeks. Here in Canada it is a non-issue. I dont know the figures, but I suspect that for just about all pregnancies that are terminated, the procedure occurs in the first trimester. Jim.

I almost always like to hear from the other side of the aisle, especially when the thoughts are well presented instead of using inflammatory rhetoric.

I wish the rabid 'pro-lifers' could/would come up with viable alternatives for unplanned and sometimes unwanted babies who quite often end in the less than perfect foster care system.

What about adoption. I know in this country there are families on waiting lists hoping to adopt. That is why so many have to go outside our country to adopt a child.

Mavia

To me it seems quite insensitive for hospitals to have their abortion clinics and fertility clinics in adjoining buildings, often sharing the same wards

Sad - but way too true here too. I was devastate to be sitting in the waiting room with pregnant teens who were openly talking about a second or worse third abortion as I was losing my deeply desired child.

C

Jim, I would like very much for that to be the truth. And that's the way the politicians say it is. But it's not the reality, at least not in southeastern Ontario. It is VERY difficult to find a doctor/clinic who will perform the abortion. They become targets for pro-life nutjobs* and most have stopped performing them due to the danger to themselves and their family. My best friend went through this a little over a year ago. It is NOT that easy, even disregarding the difficulty of making the decision itself.

Heather

*Just to clarify, I don't believe all pro-lifers are nutjobs, just that there is a subsection who go WAAY too far.

"What's to be done With the prodigal son? Fetch him a tall drink of water But there's none in the cup Cuz he's drunk it all up Left for the prodigal daughter" -Michelle Shocked

Elizabeth

Due to what you wrote before , it is very strange that you have empathy for unborn babies , BUT not AS YOU YOURSELF Stated for the Victims of 9/11? as you said you felt compassion for the terrorists , Where is your pro life feeling ? Whole families sufffered from this terror act. mirjam

Victoria You are against Death Penalty , but Have Compaassion for MASS killers =3Dterrorists , none of those was sorry .... not even those people who sent them tyo murder ... I am against death penalty , from a moral point of view,, But i am against any compassion for murders may their REASON be what ever it is ,,,, mirjam