OT: A Shameless Bid for Sympathy (long)

I am so terribly *dismayed* (DH is angry), that I must vent here.

First, the background. It isn't completely necessary, but helps you see the perspective for our tsuris. If you want to, you can skip down to "Finally, we're getting there".

When DH and I got married, I had been sewing for many years but had not yet taken up quilting. DH was working as a carpenter, but had not taken up woodworking as a hobby. We paid for our own wedding and didn't have the budget for many frills. As a result of all of this, our chuppah was VERY plain and basic-- a borrowed tallit and four wooden curtain poles covered in wallpaper.

Fast forward to two years ago. DH's youngest brother is getting married. We have been practicing our respective hobbies for several years, and offer to serve as the "Chuppah Committee" for the wedding. I made a quilt-type thing, and DH constructed four beautiful cherrywood poles, the top halves of which bore a hand-carved vine-and-leaf design. (There are pictures posted somewhere if you want to see.) Our efforts and expense were admired and appreciated by all. We spent a few minutes wishing ours had been that nice.

Fast forward again to six months ago. DH's youngest sister is getting married. It's probably a bit of a given among the family that we are now the Chuppah Committee, but we don't mind. Unlike, say, a ceramics hobby, it's nice to have the fruits of your labors anticipated and welcomed. DSIL wants her poles to be free-standing (rather than held by the attendants), so they must be siginifcantly more substantial than DBIL's. Also, the space underneath needs to be a little bigger. End result, big walnut-and-curly-maple poles and crosspieces with an eight foot *octagonal* canopy. Total price (not including shipping up north) will probably have a comma in it. In addition, I have offered to sew flower girl dresses for two nieces and will have to fly to their town out west to fit them. Free plane tickets, but probably a hotel bill.

(Finally, we're getting there.)

About two months ago, same DSIL called to see if DH and I could loan her and her fiance deposit funds (first, last, security) for their move to a new apartment in a new city. Both were changing jobs and relocating. The amount of money was substantial: we'll describe it as "more than enough to cover the quilting machine I want". For a variety of reasons--all reasonable--they were (or felt) unable to ask the few other family members who might actually have the funds. She said she would send us the security deposit from the old apartment (a third of the total loan) and would then make monthly payments. We were both a little hesitant because the size of the loan would pretty much clear out our rainy-day fund, but because we would quickly be getting a third of it back, we said OK. DH's one other stipulation was they they must pay

*something* every month. She agreed.

She sent us $100 about a month ago. They've been in new apartment about six weeks, and we haven't received any more money, so DH called her last night. Yes, they had received their deposit back, but she hadn't sent it because they needed it for living expenses, after all. DH stayed calm but was livid--then you should at least have called and told us, he said. He told her she needed to send us a payment next week, and she said she would send something after Tuesday. An amount was never discussed. However, if it's not all or most of the security deposit, a serious rift is going to occur in their relationship.

Because of this, he says he will no longer agonize over--and will buy--the less expensive, less deluxe--wood for the cross pieces. We will not boycott the wedding, but will boycott the engagement party MIL is hosting for them in our town next month. He will tell her that someone other than us will have to pay the shipping costs (probably another $100) to get it up north.

We are not rich, but we have everything we need and a whole bunch of what we want. We can even explore acquiring expensive things like quilting machines! Part of this is because we have no children, a combination of accident and conscious decision. Another part is part of a conscious decision to live in a small house in a working-class neighborhood so that we have money to spend on other things. Or to save for a rainy day. They are both 30-something, never-married professionals. I don't know about the fiance, but SIL has a master's degree (related to her field of employment) earned at two Ivy League schools. Her/their relationship with us and the rest of the family has always been good.

I'm not really looking for advice (although you can make suggestions if you want!). We both knew the dangers inherent in loan money, especially to family. Although less angry than DH, I completely agree with his feelings and response. I am, as I said in my opening sentence, just so incredibly..... DISMAYED.

Thanks for reading. Nurse Ratched (remove "cuckoo" from address to reply) We'll all get back to normal if we put our nation first, But the trouble with "normal" is, it always gets worse. ~Bruce Cockburn

Reply to
Nurse Ratched
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Grrrr...they sound like spoiled 30-something brats. I share your dismay...

Hugs,

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

Reply to
LC aka Fiddy

My DDIL is only 28, but is filled with wisdom. She always tells me that you never loan money to family- it causes too much grief. You give what you can and never expect payment. That saves these unfortunate rifts. Yes, I have, also, been burned several times and now follow Heather's advice. I'm so sorry you are in this situation and I hope something can be worked out to make everything pleasant and happy again.

Leslie

The HairyFacedOnes 'N Me

RCTQ- Houston 2004..... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail.... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn... that was fun!"

Reply to
The HairyFacedOnes 'N Me

Having loaned money to relatives I can sure feel the sympathy!! In this case, I suggest that since the money was promised, you and your husband should call them back and TELL them what you expect. Phrases like "some amount" just give the borrowers a soft spot to wiggle around in. Tell them that you know starting out is tough (although if they had any brains at at they would have anticipated this) BUT!! They said that they would do thus and so and you damn well expect them to follow through! This is their lives, their wedding and their honor---is this how they intend to start their life together? Lay it out, plain and simple. Starting off life together by stiffing a trusting relative isn't kosher! RedQueen

Reply to
Judy Grevenites

Marilyn, I sympathize with you. It's *so* difficult to have financial dealings with friends and family -- you almost know from the start that you'll never see the money again, yet you don't want to have hard feelings coming from refusing to help. BTDT. You certainly have my sympathy, though I don't really have any advice for you in this situation.

Reply to
Sandy Foster

Well, a MEAN person (probably me!) would immediately resign as Chuppah Committee. And a MEAN person (again...) would now be "much too busy, Darling" to sew Flower Girl dresses. But that's just me. I can be hard as a rock if I feel I have been taken advantage of.

In my family, I would have been the one who was furious and DH would be all, "Well, that how my sister is." Would have cause masses of problems for us. I admire your restraint. And your tolerance for stupid.

While I have nothing constructive to advise, may I offer my admiration for the choices you and your husband have made in your life? So many people expect a fancy house AND fancy toys. I'll take the toys anyday. DH makes more than enough money to make a huge house payment. But we realized a long time ago that if we stayed more modest, we could get great stuff. Our hobbies are expensive (he shoots guns at little round clay things) and I have more hobbies than you can count). So he gets to buy very expensive shotguns and I get to buy what I want. It works out.

Good luck to you. Cindy

Reply to
teleflora

I can certainly sympathize with you!

I wish I had a magic solution for you -- it sounds like they have a very different attitude towards responsibility than you do. *sigh*

We've made many of the same choices you have, and so have also been able to have a couple of toys and still save for the future. We were a little luckier -- certainly family members criticized us for those choices *before* deciding that they wanted to borrow money to finance their lifestyle. It made it very easy give them the number of a bank. :)

Reply to
Kathy Applebaum

"You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family" - ain't that just right... most of my friends wouldn't think to ask if they could borrow money like that off us as they know we can't afford it, but some family seem to think that just because there's an official relationship it gives them carte blanche to ask for and receive everything...

Can't offer much more than my sympathy and hopes that this is resolved quickly for you both - having that kind of money owing is not fun.

Suzie B

-- "From the internet connection under the pier" Southend, UK

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Reply to
Paul & Suzie Beckwith

Reply to
Dr. Quilter

Howdy! C'mon on over; we'll do Cha-Cha's (local Tex-Mex cantina).

"Life's a bugger!" ---Sid, main character in "Come to Grief" by Dick Francis.

relationship.

Reply to
Ellison

Reply to
Pat in Virginia

So sorry for the mess Marilyn. You have a couple of choices. You can just figure the money is gone and try to keep some sort of sense of family or just cause a big fuss and deal with the fallout (and probably still not get your money back). Really nothing to offer you except that I'm sorry and hope your venting helps. It is pretty bad when someone you thought you could trust takes advantage. I am learning myself just what the limitations of family members in my life really can be. Sucks. Taria

Reply to
taria

We've found out the hard way that loaning money to, co-signing for, or selling something to family ends up with us not getting paid. All of our grandkids know that we will not ever do this again and they need not ask. Got stiffed by my son, my daughter, & one grandson. Guess we're slow learners!

I think Kate's idea of asking if they would have treated the bank the same way is the best idea. However, that still doesn't mean they'll ever pay you back.

Reply to
Donna in Idaho

Thanks for all of your sympathy. DH says after the money comes, he's going to tell them that we now expect a written agreement to pay $200/month. Why are people like this? Until this happened, we probably would have accepted whatever they felt they could pay us (after the first third, of course), as long as they sent something every month. Now, we're pissed and they need to pay us back a lot faster if they want to make us happy.

I did tell DH that a part of me wanted to call their dad and ask him to deduct it from the wedding budget and mail us a check. Part of me still does, but that's not him. It's his family and he is dealing with it, so I won't push.

On top of all this, my (*&#@$#&^% sewing machine is skipping stitches. But that's another thread, already posted and responded to. :) Nurse Ratched (remove "cuckoo" from address to reply) We'll all get back to normal if we put our nation first, But the trouble with "normal" is, it always gets worse. ~Bruce Cockburn

Reply to
Nurse Ratched

You have more restraint than I do. I'd be livid or at the very least really steamed. It must be really aggravating to live in a responsible manner and then be expected to subsidize someone that doesn't. I'm glad you didn't ask for advice because I don't have any! Except maybe a good stiff drink. Family....you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Dee in LeRoy, NY

I am so terribly *dismayed* (DH is angry), that I must vent here.

First, the background. It isn't completely necessary, but helps you see the perspective for our tsuris. If you want to, you can skip down to "Finally, we're getting there".

When DH and I got married, I had been sewing for many years but had not yet taken up quilting. DH was working as a carpenter, but had not taken up woodworking as a hobby. We paid for our own wedding and didn't have the budget for many frills. As a result of all of this, our chuppah was VERY plain and basic-- a borrowed tallit and four wooden curtain poles covered in wallpaper.

Fast forward to two years ago. DH's youngest brother is getting married. We have been practicing our respective hobbies for several years, and offer to serve as the "Chuppah Committee" for the wedding. I made a quilt-type thing, and DH constructed four beautiful cherrywood poles, the top halves of which bore a hand-carved vine-and-leaf design. (There are pictures posted somewhere if you want to see.) Our efforts and expense were admired and appreciated by all. We spent a few minutes wishing ours had been that nice.

Fast forward again to six months ago. DH's youngest sister is getting married. It's probably a bit of a given among the family that we are now the Chuppah Committee, but we don't mind. Unlike, say, a ceramics hobby, it's nice to have the fruits of your labors anticipated and welcomed. DSIL wants her poles to be free-standing (rather than held by the attendants), so they must be siginifcantly more substantial than DBIL's. Also, the space underneath needs to be a little bigger. End result, big walnut-and-curly-maple poles and crosspieces with an eight foot *octagonal* canopy. Total price (not including shipping up north) will probably have a comma in it. In addition, I have offered to sew flower girl dresses for two nieces and will have to fly to their town out west to fit them. Free plane tickets, but probably a hotel bill.

(Finally, we're getting there.)

About two months ago, same DSIL called to see if DH and I could loan her and her fiance deposit funds (first, last, security) for their move to a new apartment in a new city. Both were changing jobs and relocating. The amount of money was substantial: we'll describe it as "more than enough to cover the quilting machine I want". For a variety of reasons--all reasonable--they were (or felt) unable to ask the few other family members who might actually have the funds. She said she would send us the security deposit from the old apartment (a third of the total loan) and would then make monthly payments. We were both a little hesitant because the size of the loan would pretty much clear out our rainy-day fund, but because we would quickly be getting a third of it back, we said OK. DH's one other stipulation was they they must pay

*something* every month. She agreed.

She sent us $100 about a month ago. They've been in new apartment about six weeks, and we haven't received any more money, so DH called her last night. Yes, they had received their deposit back, but she hadn't sent it because they needed it for living expenses, after all. DH stayed calm but was livid--then you should at least have called and told us, he said. He told her she needed to send us a payment next week, and she said she would send something after Tuesday. An amount was never discussed. However, if it's not all or most of the security deposit, a serious rift is going to occur in their relationship.

Because of this, he says he will no longer agonize over--and will buy--the less expensive, less deluxe--wood for the cross pieces. We will not boycott the wedding, but will boycott the engagement party MIL is hosting for them in our town next month. He will tell her that someone other than us will have to pay the shipping costs (probably another $100) to get it up north.

We are not rich, but we have everything we need and a whole bunch of what we want. We can even explore acquiring expensive things like quilting machines! Part of this is because we have no children, a combination of accident and conscious decision. Another part is part of a conscious decision to live in a small house in a working-class neighborhood so that we have money to spend on other things. Or to save for a rainy day. They are both 30-something, never-married professionals. I don't know about the fiance, but SIL has a master's degree (related to her field of employment) earned at two Ivy League schools. Her/their relationship with us and the rest of the family has always been good.

I'm not really looking for advice (although you can make suggestions if you want!). We both knew the dangers inherent in loan money, especially to family. Although less angry than DH, I completely agree with his feelings and response. I am, as I said in my opening sentence, just so incredibly..... DISMAYED.

Thanks for reading. Nurse Ratched (remove "cuckoo" from address to reply) We'll all get back to normal if we put our nation first, But the trouble with "normal" is, it always gets worse. ~Bruce Cockburn

Reply to
DDM

No advice from me, but I listened, and will do again, if needed. Try cutting up some fabric - that always makes me feel better! (oops, that was advice.... )

relationship.

Reply to
frood

You got MY sympathy! I would hate to be taken advantage of that way.

I've only been married 8 years this year but one thihg I understand is that if my DBIL, DMIL, or sister want to "borrow" money, we just give. DH is a lot better at asking for it back but I just stay out of it. It's never a lot of money anyway (nothing like what you gave and are still expected to cough up for the wedding). So if we need to "borrow" money, they are there to help us. I guess it's like a floating line of credit. No hard feelings. If you can give, great, next time I give you back. Our relationships have been okay...

relationship.

Reply to
Joy Quilts

My DH and I both learned the hard way with our own kids about the money thing. I'm a teacher and my DH is a millwright. We own our home in the country (singlewide trailer) which we have remodeled and added on to. It and

2 vehicles are paid for....but we work hard for every cent we make. And first son and new wife want to build Jim Walter home and need land (we bought) and then down payment. We LOANED without interest to them.....that was over 7 years ago and we have not seen one red cent. We helped 2nd son out by co-signing for a mobile home which we set up at the back of our property. This DIL hated living in a mobile home. We also co-signed on 2 vehicles for them and of course you can guess that they were always late on payments. They got behind and we baled them out with the idea that they would pay us back without interest. That has been 4 years ago and again guess what.....no money. Now since they are expecting a 3rd daughter they have decided the mobile home is too small (I agree) and so have sold it just for what they owe (which wasn't much) and have moved into a rental in town which is the same size as the trailer was. And it is on the real estate market and could be sold out from under them at any time. Younger son is not married yet and so far he has better sense in the money department. But we aren't rich by any means and it takes us awhile to save up the amount of money they tend to fritter away...so we have decided that any we save now will be spent on us or charities since they have gotten their inheritance. It did cause bad feelings for awhile since I did tell them all what-for but it has since blown over but we now don't jump at their beck and call. We have learn the little word "no" even to baby sitting. cause if we once say yes then they are constantly callling for our services. Sometimes we have to show "tough love" to make them grow up. Hope the situation resolves itself. Barb
Reply to
Barbara Bowen

You have my sympathy and a big pot of tea if needed. My step brothers have 'borrowed' much money from my Mum and step Dad this way and never paid it back. I have watched them for years go without things that would improve their lives, because they were waiting until they had their loans repaid by one of the boys. Finally I got to celebrate quietly for them a few months ago when Mum and Dad finally told them both no more :o)

Sorry to hear about this and your sewing machine to :o( And I really do hope you get your money back eventually.

relationship.

Reply to
jules

You have my sympathy! Was your SIL always a moocher, or is this the first time? You're right to cut back your substantial contribution to the wedding -make sure they know it's because you are now on a tight budget! They probably have no clue how much the chuppah actually costs. Roberta in D

relationship.

Reply to
Roberta Zollner

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