An observation on Acid Free and Lignn Free and Items for Scrapbooking.

I have been doing some more reading about Lignin trying to understand what its about. So far I haven't found a great deal of information that deals specifically with scrapbooking and why Lignin free paper would be so important. I did find this:

"The first thing to avoid is paper that is not lignin-free. You've probably heard that before, and it is true, but what is lignin anyways? Lignin is a stiff component of a plant that quite literally holds it together. Although lignin is necessary for plants and trees, you want nothing to do with it! After a while, lignin will cause photos, fabrics and other paper that touch it to turn brown. Yes, lignin-free paper does cost more, but it is a vital part of preserving your cherished scrapbooks. "

So it would seem that Lignin is a problem for photos. Ok, now is that just chemically processed photos or does that include photo copied photos (which probably aren't on lignin free or acid free paper) and what about inkjet or color laser printer printed photos. Even the archival inks and papers for printers like the Epson 2400 don't say anything about acid or lignin. So if you are using these and they aren't lignin or acid free do we need to worry about the rest of the pages?

This is what is confusing. There doesn't seem to be a clear answer and you really can't ask the paper companies after all their main goal is to sell their product so I don't know if they can be trusted to be completely honest.

I was hoping to get a discussion of all of this going as I think it is very interesting and potentially costly.

My other question is what is the life span of a lignin/acid free scrapbook compared to one that isn't? Do we really need them to last 100 years or more? Do we care of they do? More importantly are our descendants really going to care? If we have the digital images on CD and we migrate those to new storage mediums and they become available is a scrapbook that lasts 40 or 50 years ok? Just how long are these scrapbooks going to last and is there any real world proof or do we have to take the word of the companies that like with inkjet printer print tests simulate and fakes the tests?

What do you think?

Robert

I found this web site that I found interesting concerning inkjet prints. It is an interesting read.

This is also an interesting read on inkjet prints. It is from various people.

Well, I guess I am going to have to tame my stance against the simulated or what I call faked testing. There really isn't any proof for or against what printer companies say is the life of their inkjet prints. Let face it in 100 or 200 years we are going to be dead and seriously doubt we will care.

I guess my big hangs with this is...

1. If they gave a life range say 50 to 100 years it would be a little easier to swallow. I mean their testing to me is like Ford putting one of their cars on rollers and letting it run at 60 miles per hour for 100,000 miles and then advertising the car as good for 100,000 miles without repairs. There are just so many variables in the real world that I just don't see how they can state an absolute number like 100 years or 200 years. In the real world the car would be subjected to road conditions, weather, the driver, etc. The same is true of the print.

1. The fine print in their advertising is also a real problem. I mean the fine print is very clear about how they got to the 100 or 200 year life span of their prints and those just aren't real world conditions.

However, after reading about Epson's latest K3 inks and such I have to say that it looks to me like these prints of all possible inkjet prints would seem to last the longest. How long that really is I think is anyone's guess.

The only other factor that I see as a problem is with the cost of the special inks and special papers to get the extended life prints. It just isn't cheap. I just don't know if it is really worth it.

Robert

Robert,

You should not be using Elmer's glue for your photographs, and not everything that says it's acid free is safe for photographs either. Look for Sulfur, if it's in the ingredients DON'T USE IT. I wouldn't use glue sticks either, though they may say they are acid free, the longevity sucks. I've been scraobooking for 24 years and have tried a lot of products, use adhesives. If you have a WalMart store you can get mounting stickers very, very inexpensively 500 per box for around the same price as a glue stick and they are safe, easy to use and last.

Regarding papers, that's up to you. If you want what you are making to last as long as the photographs than you DO want lignen free, yes, pages and colors do change with time if they contain lignen. Acid-free is important becuase your pictures can and do fade when exposed to acid. I'm redoing my 11 year-old's baby scrapbook right now because the acid from my magnet album was causing damage to the pictures. If these are valued images and you're doing it for prosperity you may want to use the best products available. If you are doing it for your pleasure and don't care about 10, 30, 50 years from now than it's not an important issue for you.

I use acid-free, lignen-free photo copy paper and a laser printer.

The toner used in laser and/or photocopy machines uses a pigmented ink that is fused to the paper fibers using heat and pressure. The stability of laser and/or photocopy prints is generally comparable to, or greater than, the stability of conventional photographic prints (50

- 100 years). In general, pigmented inks are more stable than dyes and fade-resistant and bleed-resistant.

I think you were mainly griping because you felt gyped, but I hope that you found some of this information helpful. Best of luck to you! We love having you in our group!

Melissa in Seattle

I did feel a little gypped. And, unfortunately, things like this have happened to consumers before so there is a trust issue. But, after trying different searches and so on I am reasonably well assured that lignin and acid free paper is worth the money. I am reasonably well assured that archival printers are too, though the actual life span of these printers prints are still sort of up in the air.

I just wanted to talk about all of this and see what people were doing and how they felt. It is reassuring to hear from someone that has been doing this stuff for 20+ years.

Robert

While some people may not really care about the longevity of their scrapbooks, as many people simple scrapbook as a hobby - to relax - to preserve for themselves and their children.......I do want at least some of my work/photos to survive for futer generations. I have my grandmother's scrapbook from her high school years. What kind of glue she used I don't know. It has yellowed quite a bit, but is in fair shape otherwise. She graduated in 1927 (started the book in 1923). I love to read about her teen years. Her hopes and dreams. About my grandfather picking her up for lunch everyday from school. Her classes and friends.........I photographed every page in the hopes of preserving it for another 80 years or more. I want my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be able to look through my scrapbooks and feel the same way. I try to use acid free as much as possible. I do worry about buttons and other embellishments, and try to make sure none touch the actual photo itself. Sometimes I get into a LO and just want to be creative. My hopes is that the sheet protectors and good quality albums themselves will compensate for my indiscretions and act as a barrier between any potential problems. Sandy

Interesting. But, doesn't the showing of the age of the book (the yellowing) add to the impact of its age. I mean antiques are cherished and worth more when there is a good patina.

Robert

Regarding buttons and other such things, what I've heard (and I can't remember where I heard or read this) was that no one knows what's going to happen with metal embellishments and such over time, but that you should mat your photos on appropriate paper and not have the photos touching anything but scrapbooking safe paper.

Angie

ladyblue AT newsguy dot com

I guess in the end no knows what will happen in 25, 50 or 100 years. We can only do the best we can with what we have.

Robert

I am now considering the Epson Stylus Photo R2400. I can get one for $799. I am just worried about all of the wasted ink that the Epson's waste, the cost per print and the cost for ink and paper.

Robert

Thanks.

Robert