Brother pricing policy *RANT* and it's long

I called my local sewing store in southeastern PA this afternoon (the same place that I purchased my wife's PE Design software, Deco 650, CD's and classes) and inquired about the upgrade for the PE Design software that included the USB cardwriter. I bought her a new computer for Christmas and have never been able to get the old cardwriter to work on it so I figured I'd bite the bullet and upgrade to 5.0. So, after being informed that they did indeed have the upgrade, and it was in stock I inquired about the price. I was told that Brother was no longer letting its distributors quote pricing over the phone, not even retail prices. That's right, you have to drive to the store if you want the price, no emails, no faxes. I thought someone at that place HAD TO be pulling my leg, so I called Brother Corporate in Bridgewater, NJ and it turns out that this is indeed the case, under the new contract, no price quotes over the phone. I was told that if I disagreed with the policy I could write a letter. It was explained to me that, "imagine you picked up the phone and called store A and got a price of $200 and then called store B and got a price of $400, you would buy from store A. Then the owner of store B would call Brother complaining that store A was selling it cheaper." (Isn't that called competition?)

Now, I'm in the purchasing department for a manufacturing company and I CANNOT imagine calling one of my vendors and having them tell me, "sure we have it but, y'know, I'm not going to tell you how much it costs, you're going to have to drive over here and THEN I'll tell you".

In this case, I ended up driving the 45 minutes to the store and spoke to the woman in person whom I had spoken earlier to on the phone and was told that the Brother policy was to protect stores from internet companies that undercut their pricing.

I am absolutely disgusted that Brother would implement a policy that in effect withholds information from their customers in hopes that they will go to a store and pay more than they should. I wasted 3 hours between the store and Brother HQ screwing around. The result of Brother policy, I for one will never buy another Brother product (sewing related or not) and will never patronize the store again either. Congratulations, you both lost a customer.

Did Amazon put Barnes & Noble out of business? No. Walden? No. My favorite corner news agency/bookstore with the great coffee? No. Evolve or perish, your distribution should be proud to quote its pricing and if it's higher than the internet companies let them stand behind their organizations and explain why. If it's the support, then sell it, if it's the fact that you can bring it in for help, then sell it, if it's the personal relationships then sell it that way. If the customer decides to buy it online cheaper then so be it, caveat emptor. HOWEVER, don't try to force the customer's hand, or they'll go away like I did.

Scott

Reply to
Scott
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Please forgive the top post. Scott, Stop buying brother?? Don't do that - not completely. Send off a detailed commentary to the Department of Commerce Federal and State (Which ever state you are in.) AND cc it to the CEO/CFO of Brother International. If you are really steaming then file a lawsuit. Call ACLU they will help you once they get 10-15 calls from the rest of us. Sewing machine companies get away with this crap because MOST sewers are female and they know from experience that females do not complain. (No insult intended but if you look into business law these are the facts big business works with) No company that sells carburetors or oxygen sensors for autos would DARE refuse to quote over the phone. Why???? The majority of people who purchase auto/engine parts are male and they will not tolerate such foolishness. Also Scott -- write to your congressman and to you Senator. Heck - everybody here who has a name brand machine should be sending letters. And BTW it is really easy. The addresses are on the web and you can type one letter in your word-processing software program and print it out a zillion times. 4-5 stamps and you are all set. Oh yeah - most of these places have 1-800 numbers too and they can really get jammed if 40-50 people call at the same time to complain. It is the squeaky wheel that gets lubed. No squeak has been done to Brother, Viking, Bernina and Pfaff so they continue to do this crap. And you are !#$#% right I will continue to call around for the lowest price. If Brother has this policy they why does it not apply to Wal-Mart?????????? Wal-Mart advertises Brother on their website and if you call a Wal-Mart store they will tell you the price of the Brother machines. So will Sam's Club and Costco. Poppycock. Send those letters one and all.

I am quite experienced in dealing with Brother International - it took me one full year and 5 top of the line $1000++ sergers to get my FULL COMPLETE refund for a machine which at that time had design flaws that prevented it from working correctly. I did it alone - I made a LOT of noise and in the end I got my money back.

Sun

"Scott" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...

Reply to
SunshineLady

Way to go Scott. I'm another one who will never buy another Brother product. I bought an 8500 and the tension modem went out after just a couple of months use. (Keep in mind I actually use my machines) So, I spent the extra $ and upgraded to the ULT 2001. This machine worked great for a few months then it too had tension problems. I took it to Brother headquarters in Bartlett, TN for them to fix. They kept it a week then called and said I could pick it up. It sewed exactly one design out before crapping out again. I took it back to them again. They kept it another week then I picked it up again. This time it sewed out 3 1/2 designs. Took it back again...This time I told them that if they couldn't repair it to sew for more than just a few designs I either wanted a new machine or my money back. They said they did not give refunds and if I wanted a new machine, I would have to take it back to the dealer who sold it to me (Who, I might add, I found out had over charged me . Could have gotten the exact same machine from another dealer for about $1,000.00 less) The head tech did say he would authorize a replacement. So, I trudged over to my friendly local dealer who wrote up the papers. Now, after a couple of months, I called to check on my replacement machine and was told that the "Purchase order" was in place and I should have my new machine in a couple of weeks. Another month went by and I heard nothing so I called the tech at Brother and asked about it. He said the ship was on the way and it should be in just a matter of days. Another 2 weeks and I called again...he said that every machine on the ship had been sold and there were NO machines in the country. Talk about seeing red!!!!!! I called the head of Customer Service and read them the riot act. She acted as though she didn't know what was going on but when I asked her if I needed to get an attorney to get it straightened out, she got real busy, said she would call me back within an hour. Yeah, right, I thought... Well, it wasn't an hour before she called back but 15 minutes!!! She said there were no ULT

2001s available in the U.S. but she was going to authorize the replacement with the 2002D but that I would have to pick it up at the dealers shop the next day. Within the hour, the dealer called me and said my machine was there. I went right over and was met with "Boy, you must be some squeaky wheel...I never saw anybody get that kind of service from Brother"... I told them that yes, I squeak when I have to and left it at that... Now, I have a useless ULT2002D since I finally decided to go full blast and get a commercial machine. WOW!!! what a difference. It only cost about $10,000 more than the Brother but it works about a million times better and best of all, I don't have to change threads and there are NO jump stitches...

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:39:07 -0500, "Scott" wrote:

Reply to
TIZME

relationships

Reply to
JJ

No. This is not price fixing and is perfectly legal. It is done all the time. Their reason is legitimate and understandable. The only thing you can do is not buy from them if you don't like it.

Reply to
CW

Just to see how this works I called the 5 Brother dealers in my area of Toronto Canada. All gave me prices on the Brother 600 over the phone and 2 referred me to another dealer as they did not have the machines in stock and knew that this dealer did. I asked if it was now policy to not reveal pricing over the phone and they said it would be stupid to operate this way. Most of the initial contact with potential customers is by phone for pricing, and store location, and they had no problem with giving me the pricing and information on the machine I asked about. Also asked about the Innovis and again had no problem getting a price and details about that machine. I wonder if this is just Brother US who has put this policy in place?. All 5 dealers were extremely helpful.

Reply to
Hanna's Mom

Actually there is more you can do. Not purchasing from Brother is of course anyone's right and option. But having been the David to Brother's Goliath I know from personal experience that you can fight City Hall --and-- you can win!!

Brother is an international company and as such they can be challenged. It may take time and money and more effort than anyone wants to put forth but they can be challenged. I for one know the power of a letter to my Senator and/or Congressman. I also know the power of letters to CEO's of companies. Brother may think they can prevent customers (the consumer) from checking prices via the telephone and/or computer but in the long run this policy will be found to be poor business practice and illegal.

The dealers do have the option to refuse to quote price by phone and to charge prices within the range given them by Brother. Dealers who will not talk price will loose customers. In this day and time of only one Brother dealership within a 50-75 mile radius customers can and will demand to get telephone price quotes before driving long distances to purchase machines.

Allbrands.com will continue to sell Brother Machines over the net and by telephone and in so doing they will quote prices. Their prices are usually much lower than the smaller Brother Authorized Dealers. They are not an authorized Brother dealer but they purchase their machines directly from Brother.

The reason for playing tiddlywinks with prices may be understandable from the dealers point of view but as a consumer I will always look for the best price when I purchase big ticket items.

Of course it goes unsaid -- if you need that dealer for classes and/or service then you are stuck with their poor business practices. I own a used and a brand new Brother machine because I just like their quality -- but I DESPISE my local Brother dealer and will not purchase from him nor will I go to him for service. I do not mind paying my local BabyLock dealer the $45 service fee once a year for my checkups.

I am an activist (left over from the 1960's I guess) so when I see something like this I fight it. I do not always win but my track record is pretty good. For example - my new computer has been giving me a bit of trouble for about a year now. The tech support folks have been somewhat helpful and I for one have not been diligent in getting it fixed because the problem is more of a nuisance than anything else --but it is a problem. On Monday afternoon after being on the telephone for 2+ hours with the tech support 'moron' I had a bright idea to send an email to the CEO of the company who made my computer. I just put his name and @computercompany.com in the address bar. I detailed a short message and hit send. On the following day I received a TELEPHONE CALL from the tech support supervisor and they are sending a specialist to work on the computer and I was told the CEO's office told tech support to "get that computer fixed". This is a multinational computer company

-- if I (one little old lady) can get this action -- surely we can collectively wake up the SLEEPING BROTHER......................................

Sun

Reply to
SunshineLady

If you want to waste your time, feel free. If I have a problem with a company, I will not try to change the way they do business. This is, in essence, begging them to sell to you. There is nothing on this planet that I need bad enough to try to talk someone into selling it to me. There is an increasing number of businesses that take the attitude that they are doing you a favor buy taking your money. Screw 'em.

It may take time

also know the power of

customers (the consumer) from

policy will be found to be

charge prices within the range given them by Brother.

time of only one Brother dealership within a 50-75 mile

driving long distances to purchase machines.

telephone and in so doing they will

Brother Authorized Dealers. They are not an authorized Brother

the dealers point of view but as

service then you are stuck with their poor business

like their quality -- but I DESPISE my local Brother dealer

mind paying my local BabyLock dealer the $45 service fee

something like this I fight it. I do not always win but my track

bit of trouble for about a year now. The tech support

getting it fixed because the problem is more of a nuisance

on the telephone for 2+ hours with the tech support

made my computer. I just put his name and

hit send. On the following day I received a TELEPHONE CALL

on the computer and I was told the CEO's office told tech

company -- if I (one little old lady) can get this action --

BROTHER......................................

Reply to
CW

If we don't fight bad business practice everyone loses.A company doesn't know that consumer A has refused to buy, but they know that consumer B is causing a dust-up. Enough dust-ups do make for change. Think any activist you have ever heard of, they problly started as a body of one. The group comes about from the activities of a beginner. I refuse to roll over and play dead for any company because it's to time consuming. I guess I'm also a

Reply to
JJ

Reply to
Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH

then you are stuck with their poor business

their quality -- but I DESPISE my local Brother dealer

paying my local BabyLock dealer the $45 service fee

(shrug) There are 3-5 Brother dealers within 10 miles of my house and probably at least twice that many within 20 miles. Probably in the more populated areas the dealers respond to their local clientele differently.

Reply to
Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH

Yes, but the best way to do this is to hit them in the pocketbook. Unfortunately, there are many people who are too lazy to do this.

Reply to
Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH

So you believe in begging to.

Reply to
CW

Begging to what?

Sorry, couldn't resist. Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

Reply to
SewStorm

I cannot see how 'cheapest price' translates to 'less service'. I do know that Janome has the least mark up, but that is from dealing wholesale with several companies including Pfaff, Singer Babylock Noliting and Janome. Rather than visit each and every store, and there are more than 10 in this area that sell Brother it just makes sense to call first and then do up a short list. I was impressed by the shops that told me to call the one with the item in stock. I would probably go to those shops just because of that alone. But I still don't think the lowest price denotes poorer service. That just sounds like sour grapes.

Reply to
Hanna's Mom

My plan from here is to copy my original post, and forward it to the store that I had problems with along with Brother and let them know it was posted to alt.sewing along with the date and let them read through the whole thread.

I'm not going to take on Brother, I don't have enough hours in the day, but I DO intend to let them know that they have lost a customer, and that I shared my experience with the alt.sewing public.

The strongest message I can send is vote with my dollars elsewhere and share my experience with as many as possible.

Scott

Reply to
Scott

Thanks, I actually did resist, glad you didn't. ;-}

Reply to
BEI Design

I don't really think it's price fixing, I just think it's a policy to make gathering all the information to be an educated consumer as difficult as possible. It's protectionist policy in the hopes of letting their distributors keep their prices (and margins) as high as possible. If you're willing and able as the consumer to drive all over your tri-state region you can gather all the data and find the best deal. What percentage of people have the time to spend a week doing that?

I'd also guess that it fragments Brother's sales to its distribution as well, which means that no one single dealer builds up a lot of volume through sales at lower prices and then lean on them for better wholesale pricing (reducing Brother's margins)...

Scott

Reply to
Scott

Maybe it is a US only policy, I didn't ask the rep at Brother when I was on the phone with her.

I asked if it was

Reply to
Scott

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