making vestments

Serge, I cannot find the person's name at the moment, but I'm pretty sure someone on the SewBiz list sews vestments. SewBiz is a private subscription e-mail list:

you have problems, Sharon H. is managing the list at present she will probably be along to help.

Serge, I found the name, but I'm not willing to post it to a public newsgroup. If you want to contact me by e-mail, I'll try to put you in touch:

beidesign [at] comcast dot net

First of all, take a deep breath and don't panic. I remember when I first made ecclesiatical items, I was so worried about making things for holy people to wear in holy places, out of frightfully expensive fabric (silk). (Actually, the people may or may not be holy, and the garments are just pieces of cloth until after they have been blessed for use.)

Patterns and instructions are sketchy because so many of these things are made to measure. A 6'2" priest needs a different size chasuble than a 5'4" priest! Also, very traditional Gothic style churches usually want very traditional vestments and hangings - lined, interlined, heavy, whereas more contemporary style churches frequently want something lighter and more floaty.

If you can find any of the books by Beryl Dean - she is THE authority - it will help. Possible sources are your parish or diocesan library, or your public library who should be able to get them for you on inter-library loan.

Remember that until they have been accepted and blessed, a cope is just a floor-length cape, a chasuble is just a large poncho, a dalmatic is an over-the-shoulder apron as worn by clerks in many retail establishments, a stole is just a long, woven scarf and an altar frontal is just a wall hanging.

Some practicalities: if you are a professional seamstress, you probably have everything you need, particularly if you do bridal work. If, OTOH, you are a home sewist like me, you will find it helpful if you can put your sewing machine well away from a wall, with a clean sheet on the floor underneath it, and a card table or such next to the machine to support the weight of these huge amounts of fabric. Also, after you have cut them out, take the scraps and practice, practice with fabric, interlining and lining until you are comfortable with them.

If I can be of further help, don't hesitate to come back with your questions.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

Serge

I have made a stole in the past- fairly simple thing to do. A sandwich of outer fabric with heavy interfacing forming the filling. The one I did was hand embroidered on the ends (my design). Let me know what questions you have.

Sarah

Hi, Olwyn Mary and Sarah! Yes, I do have a question or two. But first: should I take this to email, or is anyone else interested in this thread?

In any event, first: I don't have a pattern for the stole, just "suggestions". So how do you "round" the neck portion so that it lays comfortably around the neck? I know the Eastern Orthodox miter it into a "V", but Episcopalian/Roman Catholic priests that I have spoken to don't like that,yet their greatest complaint is about the neck.

Second: do you have a source for trim (orphrey, galoon and applique crosses and the like)? Yes, I can get them in NYC for a good price, but they all have a minimum order, and I want to make one stole before commiting to a large order. I'm particularly looking for appliques.

Thanks to both of you!

First of all, keep it public unless someone complains. You never know how many lurkers there are out there, very interested in the subject but too timid to post.

I used to make a pattern for each individual priest. I ask him/her for the stole which fits best, then lay it out on pattern paper or newsprint paper (unprinted, that is) or tracing paper or unwoven facing - whatever comes to hand. I double it, then lay it out flat and trace around it, leaving room for a seam. This way, I can get an exact copy of the preferred neck curve. I used to have one for each of several clergy, before we moved here.

Orphreys, galoons etc. Try the Almy catalogue (C. M. Almy and Sons, IIRC). Their stuff is not cheap, but you can get it in small quantities. Actually, there are several supply houses, some of the Roman Catholic ones are very good, the Orthodox ones tend to be extremely ornate. I don't usually buy the appliques, but then I am an embroideress, and just embroider them on by hand. Some people also embroider orphreys, and there are those machine embroidery enthusiasts who set up things that way.

In any case, if you are thinking of doing ecclesiatical work, it is good to have your own copy of the Almy catalogue, and likewise of the Wippell one. Wippell are in England, beautiful work but wildly expensive, but it is useful to have copies of the actual catalogues to leaf through for inspiration. Your church office should have copies of at least some of these catalogues, they also sell church furnishings such as linens and silver etc.

I'll Google for some supply houses, and come back with sites for you.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

Always interested. As a dress and costume maker, there's no knowing what I might be asked for next!

Cut the two long bits that hang down the front separate from the bit that goes round the back of the neck... Cut that like a facing for a jewel necked top... Just a thought.

These any use to you?

had a look round, it might be better to go the embrodered route, and if you don't have that capacity, get that priced by someone who ca do a nice job for you.

I'm interested in this thread. I've done more vestment repair than construction, but have done a few vestments. I was just considering doing more before I saw this thread.

If you are interested in buying a pattern, there is a curved one here.

I were making one for a particular priest, I would fit it for him to fit properly with the other vestments he will be wearing.

--Betsy

Sorry, Kate. They are traditionally made in two pieces, with a seam at the center back and a cross embroidered over it. For fitting, if the cleric does not have a favorite stole, it is better to try a few different curves in a toile, to see what is best.

>> None of the above, unfortunately. The iron-on ones cannot be used - must be sewn on and dry-cleanable (or hand washable in the case of synthetic fibre vestments) and the machine embroidery ones would have to be purchased by an enthusiast.>

Always safer to go to the "official" house unless you really, truly know what you are doing. (Wippell's is in Exeter, BTW, you might take a look at their site). I can bend the rules because I know them, what is absolute and what is optional. Also, whenever I have made vestments, it has always been in close consultation with the intended wearer.

BTW, Kate, on another topic, there is a question on the PMB board about making a taffeta corset. You might want to help the lady.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans

Hi Serge

The one I copied was a very long thin rectangle, and the neck shaping (such as it was) was minimal and consisted of a series of pleats (memory says 3) about 12 - 18" long, centred along the length of the scarf. These were folded and held in place with 2 or 3 lines of straight stitching across the width.

Can't help you there - I only made the one scarf and hand embroidered it to decorate - to my own design along the lines of the religion. I also decorated a second commercially purchased scarf as a favour - some very hard, bouncy, artificial fabric - probably polyester - and I said never again!

You need to consider how & why you are making these - and if doing to for commercial gain, you need to be able to make them fast enough to make it worthwhile to earn a reasonable wage. If you are making them for friends (love) or to support the church you worship at (duty), then fair enough, you can spend longer on them. Or work out a way of decorating them faster than personalised hand embroidery!

HTH

Sarah

That makes a lot of sense. And it gets a red herring out of the pot!

>>> > >

The nuns at my school used to make hand embroidered stuff like this... I wasn't sufficiently interested at that point to know how they arrived at the designes, but they were individually done for each church and priest.

I was tryin to find some I'd used as references once before, but I think the links vanished in some now acheologial access only computer crash!

Got a URL for that? It sounds like fun.

It's on the Wild Ginger forum.

then go to community forums

p.s. I still insist that that ought to be fora! Oh well, let's not be too pendantic

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans

'S OK - I found it! :) Have asked her some questions and am awaiting a reply.

My latest one is almost done. I'll post about that in a new thread. Maybe tomorrow!

I ordered the Almy general catalog from their web site, but I did not see fabrics or trim - just completed vestments and church goods. Do I have the right CM Almy?

I went in to LaLame (I live near NYC). Wow! what fabrics and trim. What prices! But gorgeous stuff.

I'm going to start with a stole in Dupioni silk, with applique crosses and wide horizontal Orphrey at the bottom. What interfacing do you suggest: woven or non, iron-on or sew-in? I have access to Promark, and I thought a non-woven iron or of medium weight, but will await your advice.

Many thanks!

There are many fora for discussions, among them are web forums.

That is, the old word takes the old plural, the new word takes the currently-regular plural.

Akin to "He flied out to second."

But for some reason "mice" didn't change to "mouses" -- it should have. Speculation: "mice" is an everyday word and firmly entrenched, and many people strongly dislike "s" plurals of words that end in an "s" sound.

Joy Beeson

Oh dear. Perhaps they have stopped carrying it, although I doubt it. If there is a phone no. in the catalogue, you might want to give them a call. Perhaps the supplies come in a different catalogue.

As to interfacing, I can only say - try it. I, personally, do not use fusibles for vestments because I am always afraid they may not fuse properly with home irons. Perhaps you could find some scraps of both dupioni and various kinds of sew-in, and try them until you meet one that works well and gives you the look you want. I do not care for the non-wovens.

Have you instituted a search in your parish office for other catalogues? Where does the Altar Guild obtain its supplies? How about the Diocesan Altar Guild? Do they maintain a library of books or catalogues?

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans