Measurement differences on Click & Sew

If this post shows up twice I appoligize. I got half way through my first writting and lost it somewhere in cyberland. I used Click and Sew to make a blouse and was very happy with the fit in shoulders and neck. I have a large bust, rounded back and average shoulders. I had some problems with the sleeve and emailed Karen at customer service. I explained my problem with the sleeves and she got back to me in less than 24 hours. She wanted to know exactly what top I was making and requested my measurements. After looking at them she recomended that I shorten the front shoulder slope by 1 1/2 inches. She said I had a mistake in my measurerment. She also had me reprint just the shoulder and sleeve portion of the pattern and adjust from there. The change was incredible. The entire fit changed and made a huge difference in appearance. I also ran into one other problem with wrinkling in the back. Karen again suggested that I change the shoulder slope, this time in the back by 1/4 ". I haven't had a chance to do this yet but I anticipate that I will have the same kind of success. This all leads up to your question about the measurements being different. I can't explain why they use different ones but they work. Even before I corrected my problems I had a far better fit than I've ever had before. I have spent a lot of time and money on patterns and fabric and never had anything fit like this top. I think that if you take the time to get careful measurements and contact customer service when and if you have problems you'll be very happy. I felt that the twenty dollars I invested was well worth it. They are now offering a slightly different version of the software it has gone up $5.00 but you get a twofer package now. Blouses and Dresses, Skirts and pants. These are the patterns that start with 9 not 7. HTH JJ

"Daisy" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

The underbust measurement is used to determine your bra cup size for purposes of dart construction. The other measurements you list I have seen in pattern drafting books.

That's because they don't have ample dart space. The gaping is from the fabric trying to form an armhole dart. If you have a big enough dart uptake elsewhere, you won't have the armhole gaping.

At $20 it's an inexpensive investment compared to a pattern.

You said something about ordering internationally. Where do you live?

The reason for this is that you're using YOUR personal measurements, rather than the pattern company's master measurements, to create a personalized pattern. Everyone has different posture, and different results from their own lives (car accidents, holding stress, osteoporosis, etc., etc.), and we all have unique proportions. The pattern company master patterns are based, not a human body, but on a size 10 Wolff dress form! If you've ever seen one of these, you know they have flat abdomens, fairly flat, tight behinds, and a bust never seen in real life, with perfect posture. In fact, the pattern companies (and garment manufacturers) search high and low for that rare person who is as close as possible to this "ideal" form.

Now you know why nothing fits right! LOL

The pattern alteration programs that begin with altering a commercial pattern all have one inherent flaw: they begin with a commercial pattern. If it doesn't come close to fitting to begin with, all the slicing and dicing in the world is never going to get as close as a fit from starting with your own personal measurements. Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

I think I have as well - somewhere. They are not in the Hazen or Betzina books though.

Yes, I began to work this out on my body-form - which is actually me and not a commercial one. I have two pattern fit books and the Gayle Hazen book explains all about this in great detail, but is not all that clear about how to fix it! The Betzina book is better, but is mainly a slash and spread or tilt the patterns solution.

I was working with a Vogue pattern (I think it is still current - #7447) but found the armhole was wide anyway - I guess sort of looser fitting. The first prefit was not good. So I then took a McCalls top pattern (#7899) which has a tighter armhole and deeper dart and superimposed it and then recut a new pattern. I shifted the dart up (using the movable dart box method) to where my measurements indicated it should go, but it was way too high.

So I went back to where the dart placement was on the Vogue pattern and used this with the McCalls more fitting armhole and it has worked up to a point with a subsequent prefit. However, I am still not completely happy with the neck and shoulders.

I live in New Zealand, but I have to say that I have never yet had any failure in receiving goods ordered from the USA - even one small company that did not normally deal with international orders.

The price of this item is very attractive and I may well contact them to enquire if I can pay and then download the program rather than wait for the CD.

Thanks so much for your helpful comments. Daisy.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

I guess the pattern fitting people (like Betzina and Hazen) are simply trying to find a simple solution for people who buy patterns that obviously need alterations due to figure irregularities. I myself have always had to alter ready to wear clothes so much that the time it took was better spent trying to make my own clothes.

I found the slash and spread method actually got the bust right and with a lot of fiddling and folding and tweaking and making endless prefits, I am more or less satisfied - until I want to make something that is not a clone of the basic pattern.

There is someone in my area (I live in Auckland, New Zealand) who will draft a pattern using a person's own personal measurements - and she charges $NZ20 - which is about $US34. By my reckoning, I would be much better off buying the Click and Sew and being able to alter my own measurements should they change (fat chance of that!)

A few years ago a pattern-maker from McCalls visited here and held a seminar on fashion styles and how pattern companies work. It was amazing. I was stunned at the time to learn that over 60% of women in the USA are nowhere near any standard pattern size, but the company was very reluctant then to even include Plus+ sized patterns in its range.

Thanks for the input. I enjoy your posts and responses because I feel you have a lot of experience. Am I right?

BTW, I find stretch fabrics are much easier to fit than stable ones. I guess this has to do with the forgiveness in the stretch. I have some very very good stretch patterns - perhaps I should adapt some of them for the normal weave fabrics I have in stock. What do you think?

Thanks and cheers,

Daisy.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

I bought the Click and Sew pants pattern. I too downloaded the demo and thought it would be great to buy, but was a little apprehensive about going "whole hog" and buying the Pattern Master boutique, which was about $200US at that time. The pants pattern software ran me about $20US. At that time, you could buy this only through a distributor of Wild Ginger products. I am not sure if this is the case now.

It took over three weeks to receive my package, and when I received it, the software had a "glitch". That is, when I printed out the pattern from my printer, approximately six sheets were off; the crotch was a vertical line at 45 degrees instead of a curve, as well as there were several other sheets that had problems.

I contacted the distributor, who informed me that it was a software problem and to contact Wild Ginger. When I called Wild Ginger, they at first didn't answer my phone calls, then finally after the fifth attempt, told me that I was to contact the distributor.

I don't need to go into detail about the "tennis volley" that happened; I can only say after much consternation, I managed to return the software back to Wild Ginger, on my "nickel". It took approximately two weeks to get another package. This time, it was another section that was off. I contacted Wild Ginger, who then tried to send me a file via email to correct this problem. The file didn't correct it. Back to the drawing board again, back to waiting by my mailbox. I returned the software again, and finally received a good copy. This was after many weeks of trying to get something that should have been right in the first place.

I have made one pair of pants from the pattern, but the pattern wasn't clear as to what was considered a "full", "medium" or "small" derriere. I now know what that means, but no longer have the interest in using it, simply because of the problems I had at the beginning--all for a $20 item.

Those books are not about drafting a pattern from scratch but rather about taking a commercial pattern and altering it. That's probably what the difference is.

I know that a number of people from Australia and NZ have ordered products from Wild Ginger.

I know they don't do that, because someone has asked them on their technical support mailing list and they said that they didn't. But Wild Ginger doesn't sell Click and Sew patterns direct, anyway, only through distributors (I recommend

because if you buy one Click and Sew Pattern and decide to spring for the whole Patternmaster program, they have a trade-in deal.) Sounds like someone should try to

Lucky you! Local ladies here are quoting an estimate of $200 USD (yes that's three digits). That's why I decided to buy the C&S pattern myself.

She sure does.

Thanks for your helpful input. I have now unearthed an old (but not out of date) pattern drafting book aimed at creating patterns from source. I think I might try to incorporate some of the fundamentals of this along with the books and (hopefully) the Click & Sew program I have just ordered.

I seem to have just about everything right in the upper pattern portion of my body - except for the darts. This is going to be a matter of trial and error in the end I feel.

But the neck and shoulders are something else again, aren't they? So many adjustment for someone with a 36" bust - and high-busted at that - in a 5 ft frame that is also short-waisted. I am not surprised that personal measurements and a program dedicated to such personal measurements are essential!

However, I have to say that I am now embarking on the most satisfying potential solution to a problem that has plagued me for years. Even as a young person and only about 105 lbs I was short waisted and reasonably full-busted. So even then all those years ago I had wrinkles and gapes that shouldn't have been there!

Let's hope all this is to be soon behind me. I do sincerely thank all of you with loads more experience than I who have unstintingly given your advice and offered help to those of us who have tried for years and made slow progress.

Daisy.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

Well, I think your Click and Sew pattern might use a different system to draft than your pattern-drafting books, so please try to give the program what it wants instead of what you think it wants. Read the manuals thoroughly and take advantage of WG's technical support by emailing them (with your set of measurements, and also hopefully with a digital pic of your fitting garment so they can see what it looks like if you can do that) to ask about any problems you might have with it. They were really helpful to me in fitting my very-unusual-shaped body.

And remember that pattern-drafting software will create the best garment that you can get by the flat drafting method, but it is not at all unusual to need a little bit of fitting to accomodate personal preference, fabric characteristics, etc., so don't feel like you did something wrong if you need minor tweaking from your pattern. But I think if you follow the program's instructions and WG's technical support you will be *very* pleased at the fit you will get.

(WG = Wild Ginger, makers of Patternmaster and Click and Sew pattern drafting programs, if you hadn't figured that out already.)

Title, author, publisher, date?

Joy Beeson

I have learned to be quite patient with sewing - but sometimes I do get quite frustrated when I think I have done everything just right, and the thing doesn't turn out well. So I will just wait until the program arrives and obey the instructions. I have been making some progress during the recent past, but mainly by laboriously unpicking some worn-out favourite garment and making a pattern from it. I have a feeling, however, that the stretch and wear that is inevitable in an old woven fabric top or skirt or pants affects the pattern and thus the new garment.

I once bought a really great pair of pants at a sale in the USA - made by Jantzen - they were just so cheap that I took them apart as soon as I got home, cut a pattern from them, and sewed them up again. That pants pattern has done me for years - with a little easing out in the tummy region now and then, and I have narrowed the legs to follow the trends. But the derriere was great, and the crotch length just right

- and they really look good and felt good as well.

Yes - thanks for that tip. I do have a digital camera as it happens - so I will be able to send a photo attachment for advice if I need it.

I have learned a lot just lately about how different fabrics react to different patterns. Especially knits. The Kwik Sew patterns do cater for different stretch characteristics and tell you how to do the stretch test. I like that.

Thanks again and I will report on this NG when I have finally received the CD and tried it out!

Daisy.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

Sorry Joy, it is a book published in New Zealand by a woman who taught pattern drafting at night school here. I don't think it is available any more. It's a really good book, and I could try to copy out some of the drafting pages and scan them on a website if you like. Or try to do something if you think it would help.

Daisy.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

Aw shucks.

I wanted it for my bibliography, which presently has only the "modify printed patterns" type of books. One like the book you describe was published here (USA) in the forties, I used it in the sixties, found it very good -- but didn't make note of the author or title.

Injoo Kim wrote an excellent article on drafting pants patterns for threads. Maybe I should Google to see what she's been up to lately.

Joy Beeson

I recall an article in a sewing magazine that showed different techniques for making your own dress form. Some started out with you wearing a T-shirt and duct taping you up. (Don't pull taught, as duct tape drawn tight is how to make corset patterns!) Cut it off with bandaging scissors, and stuff to fill. Another method had you getting wrapped in chicken wire. No, I am *not kidding*, they wrapped women in chicken wire to make their body doubles. I'm not *sure* which magazine, but it was probably Threads magazine 10-15 years ago. (Gee, aren't I a big help...)

Sandi Jones

joy beeson wrote: ...I wanted it for my bibliography, which presently has only

I'll dig up my 2 USA pattern drafting books, and send titles. (If I forget to do this after dinner, email me and remind me!) I picked them up at sewing conventions, and they are GREAT!

Sandi Jones

Y'know, chicken wire makes more sense than duct tape.

Except for the sharp edges poking at you! Ouch! ;o)

Dritz used to make one that was all wire and adjustable. They come up on eBay sometimes. You step inside and someone squishes the wire around you to fit your curves, then you carefully step out.

Rebecca