Renaissance shirt question

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Brennan has outgrown his shirt (finally. 3 years is pretty good &
it's in perfect condition to go to his cousin), so i need to make him
a new one. i'll be using this "pattern" again:
http://renaissancetailor.com/demos_shirt.htm

but he did have a minor issue with the last one wanting to pull
backwards, which had the collar tie right at his throat. i'm pretty
sure this is an easy fix, i just don't remember exactly what it is...
lengthen the back a bit? i was threatening to put weights in the
front hem of the old shirt :)
 if anyone has ideas for fixing the 'pull back' problem, or a better
pattern to fit a size 8 boy... thanks!
 BTW, making the kid's shirt out of linen was brilliant! stains just
don't stick & he was very comfortable in upstate NY's lovely hot
humid summer weather. dries fast too, when it rains or he gets too
far into puddles catching creatures...
lee

Re: Renaissance shirt question
enigma wrote:
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You just need to fit the pattern to him.  There is no one universal
solution; it depends on what is causing it.  My shirts used to ride up
in the front because of a abundance of mammary tissue and not enough
fabric to gracefully skim them, and my solution was more length and
width in the front to allow the fabric to drape instead of bunch up.  If
you have a little guy who has well-developed muscles from being on swim
team, you might need to add more in the shoulders and neck.

Here's a great page on how to read the the strain lines on the garment
and subsequently alter the pattern to fit.

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_c/c-228.html

Re: Renaissance shirt question

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 thanks, but there are no strain lines. the shirt is quite boxy &,
yes, oversized. he could still wear the same shirt he's been
wearing since he was 5, but the sleeves are too short.
 if you look at the 'pattern' the front & back are simple
rectangles, as are the sleeves. ease for the sleeves is from
underarm gussets. the collar is set into the neck/shoulder with
smaller gussets.
 taking this in mind, would simply lengthening the back &
shortening the front, so as to move the shoulder seam more forward
help with the pulling?
lee


Re: Renaissance shirt question

"enigma" wrote...
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Hmm, I was just thinking that the reason for this may be the back neckline
not being low enough. Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being an expert, but
if all the other things seem to fit, then perhaps that might be the
solution.

Just my 2 c. ;-)

U.



Re: Renaissance shirt question

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 thanks, Ursula. yes, i think i need to play around with the
neckline. it was easier to costume him when he was less active :)
http://www.tarogue.net/~tom/Faire_2001/scotts/Kilted_B.jpg

 he was 10 months in that photo...

http://www.tarogue.net/~tom/20030818/mvc-001s.jpg

and just turned 3, as an merchant's child.
lee

Re: Renaissance shirt question

"enigma" wrote...
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Wow, he could walk at 10 months already? Christine walked at about 18
months, but it seems she's taking her time with everything. Anyway, that
kilt looks really cute on him, though I wonder how you managed to stay it on
the kid. Glue? If it wasn't for the straps on her dungarees she'd be without
all the time, her hips are so slim. Well, must be so with all small
children, I guess.

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He looks really cute with his curls and in that skirt. It was in ye olden
dayes that all kids wore dresses, didn't they? You could tell them apart by
the pattern of their caps or bonnets or whatever it's called. Weird, and
today the little ones are dressed like grown-ups. I frequently see very tiny
babies in sort of grown up clothing; girls that can't even crawl yet in
skirts and boys in pants and sweaters, and their kidneys are exposed to the
cold. But I'm rambling, sorry. Very pretty boy, and if he's only half as
active as my DD is, you've got a lot on your hands. I've heard, though, that
it gets easier when they start to use their brains for remembering words
like 'forbidden' etc. ;-)

And he likes going with you to Renaissance fairs? We used to get into Viking
re-enactment before DD was born and were a bit unsure if to continue. DH
said that it would be great for a kid (which was what I used to say, too,
before DD was born). I have some doubts, but since we are so busy with home
and weddingd and other stuff, we didn't find the time to continue. The
'clan' we used to visit has dissolved and so far we have found nothing in
our close vicinity. Well, I'm rambling again. Good luck with that shirt,
anyway, and keep us posted what the problem was and how you solved it.

U.



Re: Renaissance shirt question

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 he was walking (& climbing stairs. eee!) at 6 months. he started
walking by pulling up on things at 4 months. it's really not a good
thing having such a tiny walking child. he climbed his first tree
at 13 months & was at least a meter & a half over my head.
 however, he didn't talk at all until 28 months, & that was after a
few months of speech therapy. he didn't do any cooing or make
noises as a baby.
 the kilt was pinned, & i'll admit that i tacked the pleats to make
dressing a bitty toddler easier :)
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 kids wore dresses until 4 or 5, for ease of toileting, after that
they were dressed like miniature adults (including corsets for the
girls).
 he was very good as a toddler at not getting into things... i
didn't 'baby proof' the house. he's a bit less cooperative now :p

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 there was a couple years when he was 5 & 6 that he found the
Renaissance Faire a little boring. last year we decided he was
sensible enough to try letting him roam on his own... only because
he has been attending this faire since pre-birth & everyone in the
cast & booths, and our friends, knows him, and many eyes would be
keeping track. so i bought him a watch & gave him money for food &
water, and had him check in with me every 2 hours (unless i ran
across him in between & granted extentions). it worked out really
well. he's very shy when he has us to hide behind, but on his own
he will go talk to people he knows all by himself. he spent a lot
of time with the glassblowers, talking about how glass works, with
the herbalist talking about plants & catching frogs & turtles in
puddles (which is why his clothes need to be sturdy & easily
washed. he gets typically boy grubby!).
lee

Re: Renaissance shirt question
Dear Lee,

I've made dozens of these shirts.  If you alter the back, you'll make
the problem worse.  If the shirt is riding up in front, you need to
cut the front neckline a little bit deeper, and the back should be
straight across.  I haven't made any children's shirts; all the ones
I've made have been for adults, and the measurement for the neck hole
is seven inches cut straight across, then 1/2 to l inch scooped out of
the back, and 3 inches scooped out of the front.  Try working with
cheap fabric first, and you don't need to go through all the steps;
you just have to get the neck right, so probably a toile down to his
belly button should work.  Have him run around in it to see if it
stays put.  If it needs to be altered, do it in the cheap fabric by
adding or subtracting until it fits right.  Remember, to be authentic,
all the pieces have to be rectangles, so make sure that your
alterations can be cut that way.

Teri

Re: Renaissance shirt question
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in
om:

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 thank you Teri. i may have cut almost an inch deep neck on the
back of his old shirt & on a little guy that's probably way too
much. i'll make a muslin mock up of the neckline as you suggest. i
knew it was something fairly simple, but i just couldn't remember
what needed to be changed to fix it.
 now i need to source some good bottom weight linen (twill maybe)
for his britches.
lee


Re: Renaissance shirt question
Dear Lee,

From your speech patterns, I think you must be in the UK, so I don't
know how useful this website will be.  But when I was teaching, I
garbed the docents at the Daniel Boone Home, and also made costumes
for the theatre.  I used James Townsend & Son for my re-enactment
fabrics.  It has canvas and heavy weight linen for bottom weights (at
least it did 6 years ago; now I'm retired).  You might also search for
"re-enactment fabrics" to find closer companies.  I don't go to the
faires myself, but I have friends who wouldn't miss one, and some of
my students would spend months working on their costumes.  It was fun.

Teri

Re: Renaissance shirt question
om:


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 actually, i'm from New York, upstate & i live in NH right now :)
i find James Townsend & Son to be a very dangerous catalog...
perhaps if i stay on the fabric page it won't eat my whole wallet.
 the nice bit about reenacting (and owning an 1815 house) is that
we're not fazed at all by little annoyances like losing our
electric for 8 days in the ice storm. just light up the fireplaces,
pump water with the hand pump in the basement (so much nicer than
pulling buckets from the well) & cook with either the gas stove or
a tin kitchen & cast iron in the fireplace. who needs a generator?
;) it's just an extention of the reenactment fun.
 i just need a pedal operated sewing machine. i have to knit when
the power is out.
thanks for the suggestion.
lee

Re: Renaissance shirt question
I found my 1894 White treadle SM at a flea market.  It cost less than the
Singer treadle.  It only took a day or so to clean and oil, and it had a
manual and 2 bobbins with it.  I no longer have it, but it was a beautiful
machine!
Barbara in SC



Re: Renaissance shirt question
Dear Lee,

I taught at Syracuse University for four years.  I was born and raised
in Massachusetts, and my Grandmother lived in New Hampshire
(Chester).  So I'm familiar with the area.  And yes, your speech
patterns are northeastern.  I've lived all over the country, but I
still get pegged as a New Englander.
I wish Townsend had more than grey linen for bottom weights.  They
used to carry much more than that.  And yes, I find that catalog
dangerous, as well.  Staying on the fabric page is impossible!!

Teri

Re: Renaissance shirt question
om:

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 oh, Chester is right next door... well, maybe there's a town
inbetween. it's a cute small college town.
 the linen i used for his 3 year old Tudor dress was shocking pink
originally. i overdyed it green to get the brown, which made the
green & gold trim stand out really nicely. i can't remember if i used
more of that linen for his brown trousers or if i found brown linen
somewhere... still, i can use grey linen, or dye it. linen takes dye
really well.
lee

Re: Renaissance shirt question
wrote:

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A Golden Autumn Silence

   Once upon a stormy time,
         a long, long time ago,  
   the autumn leaves came crashing down
         in half a foot of snow.  
   "Sparking wires," said the scanner,
         "sparking wires, wires down.  
   Stop reporting one by one,
         it's the whole deleted town."  
   I'm sure talk got more lively, but
         that's when mine went down.

   Gasoline won't run the siren,
         the pagers worked just fine.  
   Firemen were needed everywhere,
         at dawn, I got back mine.  
   When the sun came out next morning,
         it melted all the snow.  
   That was sure a blessing:
         just chop up trees, and go!  
   When everyone needs water,
         firemen don't need snow.

   And then the house got quiet.  
         No clicks, no whines, no drone.  
   And then the world got quiet.  
         The chain saws buzzed alone.  
   I wanted to write how fine it was.  
         My typer did not moan.
   I have a treadle sewing machine,
         a treadle iron -- lingers
   And seams in polyester
         just won't yield to fingers.
      
   At last, one day, a NiMo truck
         went by at walking speed
   I clapped my hands --
         if they hunt for breaks                                    
         there can't be much we need                    
   It must be soon, they must be near
         the end of their attack,  
   And sure enough, in two more hours,
         sweet cacophony was back.


 Re:  the storm of Oct. 4th 1987



Re: Renaissance shirt question
wrote:

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If you find a *tightly woven* linen twill, be sure to post!   I've
bought a linen-cotton twill, and Russia (hemp twill) and both were
loose enough to make great towels.    The cotton-linen wore out in
hardly any time at all, and the loose weaving makes the Russia thick
and warm, which isn't exactly what I want on days when white jeans are
appropriate.  

I may resort to Towsend's gray haversack linen again; it was as ugly
as a mud fence, and I used up all the scraps patching it, but it was
really comfortable in hot weather.  I didn't even mind much getting
doused with water:  linen doesn't feel nasty when wet, and dries
quickly.  

Re: Renaissance shirt question

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oh no. that's not sounding good!  
 
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this sounds suitable for little boys who like puddles.
i will let you know if i find good linen twill though. how about
real handkerchief weight or not fuzzing top weight linen as well? 3
ounce linen is *not* handkerchief weight & i don't want half of my
shirt in the dryer's lint basket either :p
 linen should be a long staple fiber so i really don't get the
fuzz.
lee


Re: Renaissance shirt question
I was wondering if you could add about 1/2 inch to the back shoulder and
remove the same amount on the front shoulder. It works on my tee shirts
and might work on your shirt. The net result is that you brought the
shoulder slightly forward and by doing so lowered the neck in front that
half inch. Juno

Re: Renaissance shirt question
wrote:

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The long fibers are broken up so that they can be processed on
machines designed for cotton.  This is called "cottonization", and
manufacturers are very proud of it.  When I googled in the vain hope
of finding a page explaining it, I found that hemp, abaca, and other
bast fibers are now getting the same treatment.  

The previous time I googled "cottonize", I learned that flax-seed
growers are working on a way to extract short fibers from straw that
is now a disposal problem.   If they are successful, this will make
linen much cheaper in both senses of the word.  It's been long enough
that there should have been some progress by now, but I no longer
remember enough keywords to find out.  

We already have a word for non-linen fiber derived from flax, but
nobody advertises their "cottonized linen" as "tow".   One page I
flipped past referred to it as "cottolin", but I think that that also
refers to a blend of cotton and cottonized linen.  In either sense,
cottolin is nice stuff BUT IT'S NOT LINEN!!!!!!!!

Growf.  I might as well complain about calling flannelette "flannel",
or calling cheap fabric "muslin".  Humpty-Dumpty is in charge.  

Retronym:  one site appeared to be using "lines" to mean real linen.

Joy Beeson
--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/ -- sewing
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Renaissance shirt question



On 5/29/09 9:19 AM, in article Xns9C1A690BB9DD3enigmaevilnet@199.125.85.9,

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I always lengthen the back of the pattern and take away the same amount from
the front to prevent my blouses, shirts & dresses from drawing the front up
to the neck and "choking" me.  I don't remember who first gave me the idea.
Emily


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