trouble with flat-felled seams ?

My bet would be that the seams are not cut on the straight grain, or the foot pressure is shifting the second line of stitching...

I never use a felling foot, I just press and sew with either the ordinary foot or a walking foot if the fabric has a tendency to creep. I rarely get this problem.

Something else to keep in mind is to do both lines of stitching in the same direction (as in start at the armhole and go towards the hem on both passes).

I'm a beginner, so I use a "flat-felled seam" foot (available at:

in different sizes) which makes it easyto do really nice flat-felled seams with just a bit of practice.Likewise, for rolled hems, they sell a rolled-hem foot). Complete instructions on how to use either can be found in DavidCoffin's book SHIRTMAKING, and the accompanying video-tape, which youmay be able to get from your library.

OK, I replied too quickly: you ARE using the foot, sorry for not reading your post befor writing!

However, Coffin is quite thorough (the video is great) and his instructions and illustrations may help!

Betcha the fabric is stretching a bit as you're sewing. Try lightening the presser foot pressure for the second stitching. If you're pressing before the second stitching, try dry iron and pressing (up and down) instead of ironing (side to side).

You also see this sort of twisting on a curved felled seam -- the issue there is you're trying to stuff a larger seam allowance into a smaller area, and if you make a very narrow fell (and clip the edge of the allowance before felling), you can often get it to work. Sometimes I've had to resort to hand basting or glue basting first.

I don't have a felling foot for one of my machines, so I use a modified general purpose foot. The modification is that I've added a couple of layers of self-stick teflon to the underside on the right side of the foot only,which gives me a foot that's thicker on the right side than the left. The left rides on the felled seam, the right on the single thickness of fabric, which levels out the pressure across the area being sewn.

Kay

[trim]

seam

seam

grain, or the

the

creep.

Thanks for the reply Kate,

I think your second analysis is my trouble -> *** shifting of second line of stitching ***

when i look at the felled seam it looks good for the first 2 inches (5 cm) then for the next 6-8 inches (20 cm) there is a definite shifting of the felled fabric seam allowance. I can see a crooking/skew across the first seam. The weave just starts bending more and more untill it is really bad at the end of the seam and of course the corkscrew effect actually gets worst with a longer seam.

So .... now, how do i figure out how / why the fabric is shifting ?

If it matters i am using a new to my collection **old** pfaff creative 1475 and a pffaf 6.5 mm flat-felling foot the foot is plastic, it has a lip to turn the seam and a raised ridge on the right edge to catch/guide the first seam.

I have tried various seam allowances of top and bottom fabrics and the result differences have been marginal if even present.

Is ther a proper manner to hold or move the fabric ? i usually just try to keep fabric lying flat out front

Thanks for the time and help, robb

not

David

which you

Thanks for reply Serge,

I will try to locate a copy. My sewing library is meager but i do try to keep it all high quality content.

thanks again, robb

seam

seam

lightening the

pressing before

instead of

Thanks for the reply Kay,

I looked and examined the seams carefully ... You and Kate have the rpoblem cornered.... stretching/warping the fabric in second pass of stitching.

the issue there

smaller area,

allowance

had to

modified

couple of

of

side

the single

area

That is essentially the shape of this pfaff felling foot i am using except that it will also curl/bend the fabric over.

There must be some problem with the feeding and this felling foot or just plain operator error :)

I'll practice some more and use the analysis and advice to alter what i do ... hopefully learn something useful

thanks again for helping, robb

[...]

You did not say how wide your objective seam is or how wide is your feller. I'm assuming we're talking shirts here and not felled seams in jeans since many home machines just can't handle that heavy duty a task.

I have 4 different felling feet that I've been using on shirts for many years. Flat-felled seams are one of the reasons that men's shirts have much less curve in the armhole than women's more fitted blouses. And the slight curve is why the widest feller is generally used at the armhole. Finished armhole seams are generally 1/4" - 5/8" wide depending on the weight of the fabric you are using and other factors. By width, I am talking about the width of the *finished* seam from where the fabric pieces are joined to the outer line of stitching. The object is to make it as narrow as possible but with a really heavy oxford cloth, for instance, you may need a full 5/8", especially until you are more practiced.

The side/sleeve seam requires a narrower feller. On the shirts I make for my husband, these are usually 5-6 mm for oxford and 4 for poplin. I use a 3 mm feller for silkies and lawn on my own shirts. So what can we deduce thus far?

(1) Not all cutting allowances should be 5/8". The cutting allowances for a seam that will be felled varies with the expected width of the finished seam. Until you can judge by fabric weight, you should purchase extra fabric so you can do some test seams before you cut your pattern. You are doing well to practice. :)

Felling with a foot is a two run operation. You do not sew a 5/8" SS seam first and then trim. Instead, the two pieces you are sewing should have different seam allowances with one wider than the other by the width between the two straight prongs of your felling foot. That, and only that, is what establishes the width of your finished seam--- if using a felling foot. So, for convenience, assuming the width between the prongs is 4 mm,

(2) for the first run, you place the fabric pieces *wrong* sides together with the piece with the wider seam allowance on the bottom and the top piece *slightly more* than 4 mm away from the outer edge and pin the entire length of the seam. When you are more experienced you can get away with less pinning. The "slightly more" part allows a smidgeon for the fold. At the start of the seam, fold the bottom piece over the top piece exactly 4 mm and place the felling foot on top, stationed so that the 4 mm width is exactly between the two prongs. The needle should catch the top fabric almost but not quite at the very edge--- no more than a millimeter. Continue to sew, keeping the felling foot aligned with the outer edge of the top fabric. This will allow the foot to fold over the bottom fabric onto the top and sew it neatly, very close to the edge. Your job is to guide it straight so the same width of fabric is always entering the foot.

(3) Fold over, keeping the wrong side of the fabric on the bottom, and press this first seam taking care not to glide the iron so as not to stretch or warp the seam. Then slide it under the felling foot again, lining up the left edge of the seam with the inner edge of the left prong and sew a few stitches to secure the end of the seam. Stop with the needle down and correctly position the 4 mm seam between the two 4 mm wide prongs, When you stitch, your right hand should be about 3-6" away from the foot (toward you) holding the 4 mm seam in a vertical position (standing up, perpendicular to the machine bed). That way, the foot will turn the seam under in a consistent, neat width.

I second the recommendation for the David Page Coffin book. There is none better for shirt-making. It has tons of diagrams and pictures. His is the best method for the armhole felled seam that I've ever run across. Use only 100% cotton at first; it is vastly more forgiving than poly. And I recommend short sleeves first before you attempt felled side seams in a long sleeve shirt. The order of putting a proper shirt with real (not mock) felled seams is totally different than the usual patterns. For a proper shirt, you need two fellers, one wide and one narrow, and a medium rolled hemmer for the tails. Honestly, with a bit a practice, you can make very professional looking shirts every bit as nice or better than the best $100 shirt you can buy.

Phae

As I've never bothered with a felling foot, I've no idea if this is part of the problem or could be part of the solution. Tr with a walking foot if you have one to fit, but also check the foot pressure: Too heavy a 'tread' can stretch the fabric out of kilter as you go.

I USUALLY just use a 5/8" seam allowance, cut the one down to about 1/3 of the original width, and press the other very carefully and firmly. Then I pin carefully at strategig points if it's a curved seam. and just sew. Don't try to hammer down the seams at top speed. Slowly to start with until it's going well, and usually moderate speed is your top speed fpr the second pass.

Just keep a light 'taught sewing' pressure fore and aft of the needle and moderate speed... If you are having real problems because the fabric has some built in stretch (linen is particularly good at this!), then try using spray starch on the seams as you press the fold in the seam allowance and then press it over the trimmed one. And always start at the same end! Usually best to sew from the top of the garment towards the hem if possible.

Here are a sample or two of thius and other seams: >

know the sample is small, but I've never had the seam give me a problem on long runs.

In article , Kate XXXXXX wrote: [...]

A walking foot would never work well on a flat-felled seam of any reasonable thickness... unless, of course, the seam was at least the width of the little rubber/plastic feet on the walking foot. ;) A felling foot, OTOH, is designed to sit atop a flat-felled seam with four layers of fabric.

The OP is using a felling foot and your suggestion does not work for a felling foot or a real felled seam (as opposed to mock-fell seams). The amount of difference or the amount of lap is determined solely by the size of the felling foot he is using (and the kind of fabric). For your method to work, the space between the prongs on his felling foot would have to be 1/3 of 5/8" (5/24"). Most felling feet are sized in millimeters btw.

Here's a set of the best felling diagrams we're likely ever going to find online, in a preview of the David Page Coffin book on shirt-making:

You can see in these very plain but excellent illustrations how the width between the prongs determines the seam width. Unless they've actually used a felling foot, most people have a hard time conceptualizing the process as it does not mesh well with either commercial patterns or dress-making practices. And once you learn to use one properly, you'll never do it any other way again. I recommend that the OP preview and then order this book if he intends to do felled seams decent enough to not look home-made.

Phae

I'd join the others in suspecting that it's being oddly tensioned against the first seam when you sew it down.

Something to try would be taking the felling foot off the machine and running it down the seam with your fingers, sort of planishing the fold in place, combined with finger pressing and maybe follow up with an iron. This is both sort of a test operation, and also perhaps a chance to get everything positioned right. If it will almost stay folded, then you can run it through the machine and sew it down, perhaps without using the felling foot at that point.

I've never had any trouble using a walking foot on felled seams, in both stretch knits and woven fabrics, which is why I suggest trying it. I've used it on fine silk and thick denim, panne velvet, and all sorts.

The method I use is not designed for felling feet. I don't use them so I don't need the technique used with them. The fold/press/starch method works very well when you use an ordinary foot. Mind you, starching stretch knits doesn't take too well... :D

I have this book, and again, while the method works for felling feet, this method is al alternative to try when the felling foot method either fails or is not available.

I think he says he has this one, and the felling foot method isn't working...

There's something to be said for using the proper tool for a given task. The walking foot is not designed to do felled seams. You can use the heel of your shoe to pound a nail but you'd get a far better, quicker result with a tool designed specifically for the purpose--- a hammer.

I know. But the OP asked specifically about use of the felling foot. He has one and wants to learn to use it.

He said no such thing. There's nothing wrong with either the foot design or the method. And there is most certainly nothing wrong with David Coffin's book. Good grief. Thousands of shirts are made every day in commercial operations using felling feet. The problem is that the OP is not using the foot properly because he does not know how, and how easy it really is once you grasp the process and practice a couple seams. You cannot instruct him because you don't know how to use a felling foot either.

Phae

The above gratuitous scolding and lecture, aimed at perhaps the *most valuable* member of this community, is indisputable evidence of a supreme arrogance worthy of a very public:

Um... I didn't say there was. But the felling foot method is producing a corkscrew effect. Ergo, it is NOT working. The method I posted is an alternative I have used successfully for over 30 years on all sorts of fabrics.

I'm puzzled... Where did I say Mr Coffin's had something wrong with it? Robb isn't getting the results he wants using this method, therefore an alternative was offered.

Good grief. Thousands of shirts are made every

I DO know how. I have tried one. I once spent several hours with one, after which I decided not to bother. I never bother now as I got the results Robb did WITH one and I don't without. Why should I, mad gadget and foot collector that I am, buy something that doesn't work as well for me as using an alternative method developed long before the felling foot was invented? Why do YOU have a problem with that?

As I don't own a felling foot (that I'm aware of - there may be one in the collection of ancient unlabeled Singer feet, but without ready reference to a complete Singer parts list for the past 80 years, I can't tell), I can't go and do a test seam on some nice shirt fabric and make any observations about getting his results or better ones. So I offered an alternative. Why do you have a problem with that?

Always remember: there is NO One True Path... Even for hammering in nails.

I love you.

I love you, too. ;-)

Beverly

Hey Robb, I went back and looked at your original post again. Depending on exactly how the fabric is constructed, part of your problem may be "thread jamming" -- you're just getting too much thread into a seamline, and the fabric is so closely woven that there just isn't room for the thread. The typical result for this in plain a plain seam is puckering. Here, you've got that "wing" of seam allowance after the first stitching, and it may be part of that induced curvature issue, along with presser foot pressure.

Some experiments to try:

Same setup, but on a more open fabric, like muslin Longer stitch length Seam not precisely on grainline Lighter weight thread

One of the fun things about sewing is that no two pieces of fabric are exactly alike, no two people ever sew exactly alike, no two projects are ever exactly alike (unless you're doing at least small manufacturing) and no two machines are ever exactly alike. Those are also the frustrating things about sewing.

The other thing about sewing that I have to remember now and again is that there are usually at least half a dozen good ways to make something -- which is why we have cutting scraps to play with.

Kay

Um... you did but you snipped it. I wonder why that is. What you said was this:

" I think he says he has this one, and the felling foot method isn't working..."

I already indicated, at least twice, that he is not using the felling foot correctly. This is readily apparent from his description. QED It is not the "felling foot method". But yet, you insist on saying that this "method" is not working. I wonder why that is.

No one is saying your method is wrong for you, Kate, so you need not be so defensive. But, I repeat, the OP asked for help using a felling foot.

When I recommended David Coffin's (highly respected) book, you said, "I think he [the OP] says he has this one, and the felling foot method isn't working..."

First of all, the OP never said he had the book or was using Coffin's method. Rather, he said he'd look for the book. David Coffin was one of the editors and frequent writers of Threads magazine btw. He is highly talented and respected in his field. Robb could not have better instruction than that.

Once again, Robb isn't using David's method. Robb is also not using the felling foot properly. You are free, of course, to offer whatever alternatives you wish, just as I am free to to explain how a felling foot is actually used, how easy it is once one really knows, and to correct and misunderstandings regarding the use of a felling foot that anyone might communicate.

I don't, Kate. That is merely your very odd perception. You can use whatever method that pleases you, of course. But while you may not be able to master the use of a felling foot, it would be unwise to assume that others cannot. I've mastered it. Hundreds of thousands of shirt-makers have mastered it. And I feel confidant that Robb can as well. If he chooses to make mock-felled seams instead, that is his choice. I am only posting to this thread with the objective of providing *accurate* information regarding the use of a felling foot. Surely you can't have a problem with that, can you?

Phae