Re: Looking for pajama patterns in 4xl (men's)

Wandering along the edges of rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, I found the following bit of electronic flotsam written by "BEI Design" in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Could you please point me to instructions on the web for "grading" a pattern up? I have to admit being new to sewing.

I found this:

that's not entirely clear, though.

If you buy a multi-size pattern, you'll see several cutting lines at the edge of each pattern piece. In order to grade *up* from the largest size, you have to add an additional 1/4" (or more) *for each additional size* at each of the places where the lines diverge. I know this isn't very clear, and I don't think pattern grading is a good project for a beginner. Maybe you can find an experienced sewist in your area to give you some hands on assistance?

Or, buy two patterns and use the second one to add size by overlapping the pieces, moving the second pieces outside the original XX lines? I'm not at all sure if that would work well, though.

Beverly

The problem with this is the standard grading scheme gets really squirrelly when pushed well into the plus size range -- the assumptions made are that shoulders get longer (hah!), necks get huge, etc. My guess is that only girth changes are really needed on 2x ->4x pj patterns, so you could use the "moving seamline method" to swing the armscye out at the side seams and add to the side seams, and then split the pants at the grainlines and add there. You may also need to change the crotch curve.

But let's start with a slightly different question: what is the chest, waist and hip measurement of the individual who needs the pjs? Pattern sizes are not the same as RTW sizes (and a RTW size of one maker isn't the same as the RTW size of another maker), so you need to pick patterns by the measurement tables given in the catalogs. Simplicity used to have the largest men's patterns available, and imho, they weren't very good. Don't know what their current offerings are like. KwikSew had some of the best large men's patterns, but I think they stop at a 52" chest. Connie Crawford has the largest patterns out there, and I think the nursing scrubs could be remodeled successfully into men's pjs, though they are nominally a women's pattern:

There are some computerized pattern drafting programs out there -- Click and Sew might be an entry level, though I have not used it (I drape or draft my own patterns.)

Can you show us the style of pjs you're looking for? Maybe we can make some better suggestions, then.

Kay

Wandering along the edges of rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, I found the following bit of electronic flotsam written by "BEI Design" in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Yes, I did find a 4x scrubs pattern, thank you!

You're welcome! I really think working with a pattern of the correct size will be your best bet. BTW, Kay asked, and I failed to: you are going by *actual measurement*, aren't you? You *cannot* use ready-to-wear "sizing" for buying a pattern.

Beverly

Kay, I agree, adding at *all* the seams would not be the best technique. However, OP stated that he/she is "new to sewing", and I was trying to offer a solution for a limited skill level. I really think pattern grading is more of an advanced process. Since I did not locate any XXXX patterns, I thought maybe the duplicate pattern idea might work. It appears he/she did locate a scrubs pattern, though.

Beverly

Wandering along the edges of rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, I found the following bit of electronic flotsam written by "BEI Design" in news:yMCdnRzsXPXgCOHZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

I'm working on getting one of those sewing measuring tapes; I don't think my Stanley LeverLock is up to this :)

Wandering along the edges of rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, I found the following bit of electronic flotsam written by Kay Lancaster in news: snipped-for-privacy@hub.fern.com:

The other poster did give me the idea of looking for scrubs; I have, in fact, found a pattern for 'scrubs' in 4XL.

Pardon if I ask for a definition . . . . "armscye"?

Hmmm . . . got to get me one of them flexible measuring tapes. Let me get back to you on that one . . . .

Yes, I've found that out already

I bought some 2x men's pj bottoms from Iris Silks - they were definitely too small; I could get them on, but the elastic waist was stretched out just about to its limit and I poped some stitches when I sat down.

I now have a pair of 3x pajamas from Mystic Clothing:

's%20Sleepwear/ unfortunately, I bought the white/cream SLP25 style, which I find they will not be restocking. If you'll observe the measurements for the SLP25 style versus the SLP52 style on the web page cited above, you'll see the chest measurement goes up a couple of inches, while the waist goes

*down*, plus a 3 inch increase in the length. I e-mailed the store, pointing out that this seemed more like a 3xl tall, but all they did was thank me politely for my comments.

The cream SLP25's I have now - the bottoms fit pretty well, although a bit snug in the upper thigh, and perhaps just a tad bit longer than I'd like my proposed pj's to turn out in the end; overall, I'm satisfied with the bottoms, been wearing them for almost a week, now. The top in this style - well, I can get it buttoned up, but it bulges out between the buttons. Fit across the shoulders is fair, but could use a bit more room, I think.

It may be that for all practical purposes, I have am a 3x from the waist up, and a 4x from the waist down . . . .

What's the difference between the SLP25s and the SLP52s? Sounds like it might be worth buying a pair to sacrifice and make a pattern out of them, because they are so close to fitting you, you could use a pair as a test garment and modify it.

I've seen it done, and it rarely seems to work well for anyone in the plus size groups, ime... which is why I suggested the moving seamline method for the armscyes.

I do, too... I've done a little, but I have an easier time draping the answer than trying to grade it.

Yah, other than Connie's, I couldn't think of any in the 4x range... glad to know there are some out there. I hope they did pay attention to the measurements portion when selecting -- it's so discouraging when a newbie thinks they did well by buying "their size", and finding out that pattern sizing is so different. Just as bad as the folks who buy a pattern that's way too big in the chest and shoulders instead of making a full bust adjustment.

Kay

Wandering along the edges of rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, I found the following bit of electronic flotsam written by Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send in news:447cf537$0$96934$ snipped-for-privacy@news.sonic.net:

The url I included in my last message:

's%20Sleepwear/ lists measurements for the various sizes.

that would work for just one pair, since they will no longer be stocking the SLP25s, but I would like to have more than one pair. I decided that at some point it would likely become cost-effective for me to go to the trouble of gathering the tools, the material, and the knowledge. My time is basicly free. True, I am a beginner, but a beginner has to begin

*somewhere*, and the pajamas are the only thing I'm interested in making, so far.

You can try this EnergyKey

may be help you.Now I always use EnergyKey, it helps me so much in my work.

You can always use a piece of string, and then measure *it*. ;-)

Beverly

Well, the thing is, pajamas are pretty forgiving as far as fit goes, and sooo many new sewists get discouraged because they spend a lot of time making clothing that doesn't fit, it seemed to me that you would learn some about fit and a lot about sewing making garments that, if you mess them up, the whole world won't know about. So you make 3 pairs, and you learn something in the process. Then you move to another type of garment, and you have the learning experiences from your pajamas to bolster you to master something else.

It makes eminent sense.

Well, you could wrap a bit of string round your waist then use the Leverlock to measure that!

Sally Holmes Wakefield, West Yorkshire, England

A difference in "size" between upper body and lower is almost always the case with *everyone*. Very few real people are a perfect size 10. ;-)

It would seem to me that *they* have some issues in their sizing. Be sure you measure YOURSELF, and use *those* measurements for buying patterns. There is a vast difference (at least in women's clothing sizing, between RTW and sewing pattern "sizes".)

For instance, if you go to the following web site:

click on the "Tech Center" link, and then on the "Standard Body Measurement Chart" and then select "Men's/Unisex", you will see what is a fairly good standard for the *pattern industry* sizing chart, although it only goes up to XL. But you'll also see that each size up increases in the neighborhood of 2" for both the chest and hip measurement and 2" for the waist until it reaches L and XL, where it increases 3" with each increase in size. You will also find that "wearing ease" is built into patterns, so the actual pattern pieces for the garment top (or bottom) will exceed

*your* measurement by anywhere from 3" to 5", depending on the way the finished garment is designed/supposed to fit. And wearing ease will be very different for a pattern designed for woven fabric than for one designed for a knit. So read the back of the pattern envelope carefully *before* you decide on fabric.

Good luck!

Beverly

You misunderstood what Melinda was suggesting. If you can sacrifice a pair which fits you, then you can take it apart and use it to make a pattern for many additional pairs of pajamas, all of which will fit you like the original. You will probably want to create a paper pattern for this purpose, or if you really think you'll be making dozens (or hundreds) of additional pairs, then use light weight non-woven interfacing.

Beverly

Ah... the hole that you sew the sleeve into. Some folks call it the armhole; some the armscye (I tend to save "armhole" for the hole in something sleeveless you poke your arm through.

And yes, flexible sewing tapes do tend to work better than Leverlocks... but if you've got a 50 or 100 ft fiberglas tape, that'll do. My DH kept swiping my 10 ft "quilters tape measure" for measuring various things, so I retaliated by stealing his mechanics rule for measuring buttonholes. (standard US sewing tape measures are 5 ft long, and usually 5/8" wide). The 5/8" is convenient because that's the standard seam allowance used in home sewing patterns.

The "moving seamline method" of pattern alteration is here:

What I was proposing as a pattern fix for your pattern was to draw in the seamlines on the side seams, armscye and shoulder seam of your pattern, both front and back (see where that 5/8" wide tape measure is handy?). Then you'd cut from the hem of the jacket along the side seam, up around the armscye, and stop at the shoulder seam. Next, you'd move the side seam out 25% of the total amount you need to increase the girth by (let's say you needed 5", so you'd move the side seam allowance piece 1.25" out, letting the armscye trail along with the side seam), and then patching in some extra tissue paper to fill in the gap. And you'd do it with both front and back jacket pieces. This way, you haven't changed the length of the shoulder seam, you haven't changed the neckline, and you haven't changed the armscye, so the sleeve pattern will still fit into the armscye nicely. For me, at least, this is a nice, logical method for pattern alteration. Or at least I screw things up less this way.

Actually, you could start to check the pattern you bought against your own measurements without using a measuring tape, if you've got something flexible but non-stretchy around (christmas ribbon, pallet strapping, etc.) Wrap the ribbon around you, mark your chest girth. Fold that in half and mark the half-length.

Take your pattern out of the envelope and mark the side seam lines (5/8" in from your cutting line) right under the armscye. Measure from the side seam line you just marked to the CF (Center Front) line of the pattern (it probably says something like "place on fold"). Mark that on your ribbon. Do the same with the back pattern piece, marking the side seam on the back piece and continuing on from the mark you made on the ribbon to CB (Center Back). I would hope that you'd run into your personal half a chest measurement about 1.5" or so away from the center back. That would give you a total of 6" of ease, which is about what I'd guess guys want in pj jackets. If you run out of pattern before your personal half-chest measurement on the ribbon, you know you're going to be needing to enlarge the pattern.

And sometimes it isn't even the same within a maker's lines (can you see my eyes cross? )

If you want to, you can probably salvage these with some creative sewing. You'd probably need to add a strip of fabric down the outside seams, and another at the inseam, and replace the elastic. May or may not be something that's worth your time and effort. Depends on how much you like 'em and how much you like using a seam ripper.

The fix for the pattern, though, is a bit different.

"Dear sir, our mailbot got some data from your address. Thank you. It has been carefully placed in the bit bucket."

This is good. You can draw in the seam lines on your pants pattern, and then see how it lines up with the pants you've already got. The four things that I'd compare very closely are the length of the crotch seam, the length from the tip of the crotch seam to the waist (the rise), and the girth at waist and thigh. Those are the critical fit issues.

Sounds like you could use a couple of sizes up from what they sent. Because you know the fit issues with this jacket, however, you can again draw in the seam lines on your pattern and then compare the jacket to the pattern pieces to see what needs to be changed.

Or their fit model just doesn't match your body type, also a possibility.

Anyhow, it sounds like you're getting things figured out. Please let us know when we can help more.

Kay

Sorry to jump in here, but I make clothes for a Big&Tall man (6x) on a regular basis, and clothes for another big man (4x-5x) occasionally..

The slopers for B&T mens clothes are incorrect from the big pattern houses... They actually more or less use the suggestion you initally made on this thread), and become more and more incorrect as the size increases up.

Additional corrections which need to be made include:

Shirts: Additonal length in shirts of at least 6 inches, and probably

8 inches. (Easy to change your pattern beforehand, but you have to know that you need to do it).

Slacks: I have never seen any slack pattern in the 4x plus range that had sufficient torso length, nor had sufficient room in the crotch. I add additional lenght to the torso area, and increase zips appropriately. I also always have to add a 6" x 12" diamond gusset in the crotch. (without these changes the slack type patterns do not sit high enough on the hips, and they are too tight in the crotch, and crotch seams will rip out constantly)

Big/large patterns are very difficult to get, but perhaps she could use a hawaiian luau shirt pattern for the top:

Patterns 210, 220, and 230 might be useful, as they have sizing up to

4x.

(Pattern number 230 might work well as a robe if you added the necessary length to your pattern)

Another option is to go to a night shirt instead of pajamas.... A nightshirt takes out a great deal of the problems incumbent with sizing up a slack type pattern. Simplicity 8895 (view b) is a caftan type pattern which I have sized up to 6x (from the original 1x) without any real issues. It also makes a great lounging wrap for the bigger man.

hth,

me