Faceplate mounting Problems

Make sure both surfaces to be glued are flat. You need some surface area for a solid joint.

Second, put thick CA on one piece and accelerator on the other. This will assure the joint is cured completely. (Hopefully)

Flat Surfaces - I thought of that after I posted, I am going to try a platter tonight, I will face joint them first. I normally do not and that may be where the issue is coming from.

As far as accelerator, I don't have any nor have I ever used it. Is it readily available? where can I get it. My glues are from Penn, I would imagine they have the accelorator but woill take a week to get it. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and do that and wait.

Thanks.

I have used Titebond glues to fasten turning blanks to a wood block fastened to a faceplate.

I have also made wooden faceplates by epoxying a nut (whose threads matched my headstock spindle) into a wooden block and then gluing that block to a turning blank.

Only problem I have had happened when I used cheap(underflooring) plywood for the glue block - it delaminated while roughing out an eccentric blank. bernie feinerman

Neil....

Since Darrell Feltmate hasn't jumped in (yet) I'll refer you to his page on glue blocks:

If you haven't been to his site, it's a real education... one of the good guys that puts a lot of time and work into "giving back"... Also, though I use a lot of CA of different types, I don't think I'd use it for glue blocks... Being an old fart, I used to use Elmers/titebond with a piece of brown paper in between, but I'm sure that there are better ways now... *g*

One of the problems that you've had is not using accelerator with the CA.... In a (hopefully) tight place life between 2 well fitting pieces of wood, it actually takes a long time for it to really cure... kind of like trying to get it to set inside the bottle.. *g*

Darrell uses hot glue... but he's much braver than I am... I would be fast and easy, and removable, I guess...

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Flat can be had by using a drillpress and the depth stop with your favorite Forstner bit. Put the whole rough on a tray of plywood - properly wedged - so that you can slide the thing easily to overlap the bores. You can even use your drillpress quill as a clamp while the glue's curing.

CA cures poorly on acid woods, so wipe with a weak solution of bicarb to help things along until you get the nitro.

I have had problems with CA. Even with accelerator, the piece comes flying off and I find the glue is still liquid. I will be humble and assume the problem is mine; I didn't get the surfaces flat enough.

I have switched to polyurethane glue and have no more problems. Apparently it is not quite a fussy about perfectly smooth surfaces. It does however take several hours to set, and has to be clamped.

I wondered about this, too, when I turned my very first bowl from a really green blank. Does the CA glue work properly when the wood is so wet that dropletts fly off while turning?

If it doesn't work well, what DO you do to connect a wet blank to a faceplate without screwing it on?

Pete Stanaitis

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Neillars> I have been using my 3" Face Plate with a round turned 1.5 inch piece

What I keep wondering is this: if the OP finally gets the CA to stick, how's he gonna get it UN-stuck?

What Mac says, works ... and there's no need to get 100% coverage, either. IF the mating surfaces are 'sortof' flat.

I've had CA delaminate off pen blanks, too. I only use it for the finish now and rely on epoxy to glue the tubes.

Bill

"Toller" wrote in news:Otaji.11540$ snipped-for-privacy@news02.roc.ny:

The poly glue I used, one of the Titebond polys, seemed to be subject to breaking under side shock stress. And since that often occurs in my turning shop, I don't us epoly glue for that any more.

YMMV.

Patriarch, still searching for catch-proof methods of work...

Two thoughts in addition to what the others have been saying--

The face plate mounting is inherently a weak one. Even on my successful turning, I after the piece is done, I can usually hit the bottom of the bowl with the heel of my hand and it pops off. So...

I use the tailstock as long as I possibly can. Well into hollowing the inside, I leave a pillar that supports the work. All of the outside of the bowl is turned with the blank secured with the tailstock.

I had an instructor point out that you need to watch where your chisel is pointing and how it is pressing on the wood when you do the interior. If it is pushing out from the center, a small catch will give you a discus throw. If you are pushing back, towards the headstock, you have a better chance of keeping your work on the lathe.

And, I use Titebond 2, clamped, cured for 24 hours at 50 degrees or more, and a piece of grocery bag as the release point in the joint.

It is possible to get a flat surface by mounting the rough piece on the lathe, with the face you want to be flat at the tailstock. Round the piece to reduce vibration, and turn the bottom flat, leaving a narrow button extending to the tailstock. Remove the work, cut off the button, chisel it flat, and Bob's your uncle.

Happy turning!

Old Guy Who worked on the bathroom floor instead of the lathe today. Bummer!

I have been turning with glued faceplates for 22 years and my experience echoes most of the other posters here. I use mostly titebond glue, although epoxy is often a substitute if I can't afford to wait for days for it to dry (I have found on a 6" or larger glue circle that some can still be wet and get a flying disk after only 24 hours of drying). Some of my glue ups are 10-12" dia disks and for these I usually wait a couple days or more, and hopefully in hot sunlight.

I used to use paper as a release between joints, but find that when I turn things over 6" dia it's no longer a good idea, and either forego the paper (most of the time now I forego paper) or I use the tailstock for the bulk of the turning. I find the extra work sanding or carving off the paper is almost as long or longer than the time it would take to part off the bowl and slice off the nub, so why put myself at risk plus deal with glue loaded sandpaper to save a minute of time?

I have had bad luck with gorilla glue (polyurethane foaming glue). It has failed in every circumstance, however you should know that like Patriarch who posted earlier, I do a lot of irregular blocks that have shock loads.

Shock loading is also a problem for CA glues, so even if you start with a hexagon or octagon, or just the occasional catch, you can have real problems. I use CA glue mostly for repairing cracks. In aerospace industry it is used for holding accelerometers on a vibration table, and when you're done with it, a little side shock is all it takes to break the glue joint...CA is really strong in pure tension, but any torsion or shear, it's very weak, so even with perfectly flat surfaces, it's not a good faceplate glue.

If you can't get a good flat joint, or you have all endgrain in one of your glue faces, two things can help: use epoxy with fine sawdust (like from the power sander) as a gap filler and add a nice big fillet around the joint. Turn off the fillet only when the rest of the turning and sanding is done. (sawdust makes a good filler with yellow glue too, but not as strong as epoxy and it shrinks and cracks, and dries very slowly) Second method I use a LOT when I have tall narrow vases is make a short tenon (even only 1/2" long by 2"-3" dia works well) make mating hole in face plate waste block and glue together. Nearly doubles the glue surface and it's not all endgrain joint. This is especially handy if you want to move the faceplate around on the glue block for multi center turning, as it will hold very well off center and at angles.

I turn in Hawaii, and using a faceplate exclusively for roughing. Norfolk pine typically, mounting a log section up to 24" diameter and

18" long or so. 1 1/2" screws through a 6 or 8" faceplate. I also turn segmented work, and always use a faceplate for these projects as well.

When turning green NP, I turn inside out, compared to most people, in that I rough out the outside into a cylinder, then cut the inside, and then shape outside to match. I know it's backwards from what most people teach and/or do, but it's the way that feels right and works best for me. Once inside and outside are shaped and wall thickness is about

3/8", I turn a foot that can be used with my 4" chuck, then use a parting tool to get the bottom of the foot to a couple of inches diameter and cut the bowl loose with a bow saw.

After drying a couple of months or more, I mount it in a 4-jaw chuck and (sometimes) turn to near final thickness and finish sand before sending it to finishing.

For segmented work, everything is done on a faceplate. I plan so I have an extra half inch to inch of thickness at the base so I can cut the base off of the faceplate without hitting screws. If I'm turning something long (recently made a pair of segmented "grecian style urns" that were 35" tall and nearly 11" diameter) I use a steady rest to support the vase while the top half is being turned. For segmented work I use Titebond II. Urethane (gorilla) glue didn't work out on the faceplate block interface, and separated. CA is way too stiff and tends to fracture if you do get it dry all the way through. I've heard of a few people that used hot melt on smaller items, but once you get beyond

8" diameter or so, you're playing with some pretty large forces, particularly if the blank is longer than 8".

Typically, I find that people use faceplates that are far too small for the forces involved. Given some mechanical engineering in my background, I just don't like the amount of force exterted on a 3" faceplate for a work piece over 6" diameter. All of my faceplates start at 6" and go up from there. (largest is a 12x12 square plate a half inch thick). My lathe is a 3hp shop built reversible unit with a 1 1/4 x

8tpi spindle, and will swing 42" above the bed. It's turned out a fair number of bowls, the largest from a single chunk of wood was about 26" diameter and 10" tall. In segmented work, I turned a 29" diameter by 29" tall balloon shaped vase in February 2007 using a 7" faceplate, but the forces involved with segmented work aren't nearly as large as roughing out a solid hunk of log of the same size.

The technique of mounting to a faceplate and turning the bottom and a foot for the chuck, then reversing it and turning the inside using the chuck to mount the item seems to take more time than I like, and (of course) I can't turn inside out like mentioned above. Besides, when turning NP, I rarely know what shape I'm making until the wood "tells" me.

Whatever method you use, be safe. Mounting anything larger than 6" "thick" on a faceplate by gluing a sheet of paper to make it "release" is asking for just that, and at the most inopportune moment. I know very well about that, because in 1967, I recieved a nasty concussion in a wood whop class when the fool running on the lathe behind me was trying to turn a pair of bookends and oversped the lathe, causing the project to leave the faceplate and whack me on the back of the head. That one was good for several days off from school and may even help explain why I'm so wierd even today... I learned long ago to not be cheap when it comes to mounting something on a faceplate. My rules are as follows:

1) never use any sort of laminated wood to mount to a faceplate (Plywood). It just isn't designed for the forces involved. 2) use large faceplates so the forces aren't as large on the screws, or on the glue interface to the project. (small faceplates can break or strip screws because of the leverage relative to the small footprint of a small faceplate). 3) use a faceplate block at least as large as the faceplate and use screws that run the full thickness of the backing block. For relatively lightweight items, I use screws that stick out of the faceplate by an inch. For green Norfolk Pine (end grain) i use at least 1 1/2" screws, typically two rings of 6 per ring. For non-NP, the faceplate block is reused for the next project, by dressing it flat before gluing on the foot block of the next project. (The past couple of years, my faceplate blocks have been Koa, and are still going strong after 4 or 5 projects each. Even at the cost of Koa, it's cheap in the long run because it is reused for a long time. 4) Glue the "foot" block of the project directly to the faceplate block. This block will be somewhere from a half inch to an inch thicker than I intend to make the base, to allow for cutoff when the project is ready to remove from the lathe. The extra wood here really doesn't cost all that much, particularly if you look at it as "insurance" cost. 5) if you're at all unsure of the solidity of your setup, don't turn it. Wood rotating at even relatively slow speeds packs a hell of a lot of energy, and if you're in the way, it can do you some serious damage. I know from personal experiece that a solid log turning the normal direction (top toward you) will crawl right over the toolrest if anything goes wrong, and that's typically where you stand when making the rough cuts, at least. Having once used too few and too short screws and seeing a 300 lb block leave the faceplate and smack the wall behind me, by some miracle missing me entirely, it's something I never wish to see again. Once lucky is wonderful, and I'm not one to push my luck, particularly as I'm getting older and wish to get much older. 6) if the project is relatively long and of solid wood, use the tailstock to support it at least until you get it round and balanced. (I've used a tailstock perhaps three or four times in the last 5 years, except when refinishing a piece damaged in a gallery) 7) Don't turn when you're tired. Don't turn if you have a feeling something isn't right. It's better to wait for the next day, look things over with a fresh eye and take it easy than try to finish when tired or in a hurry.

Got me going, and I didn't know where to stop, I guess...

Find your limits, work safe, and have a wonderful time turning...

Thanks

--Rick

You're turning the same way we all do. The cylinder you make is really outside first turning, because it makes sense to have round and balance. Outside finishing it isn't. I do my goblets and such that way. Outside/inside/outside I call it.

Now that we're to the point of telling how we work rather than answering the question posed, I'd say the OP should add a chuck to his list of wants and get it over with.

Advice for you. I don't believe a log rotating toward you will crawl over the rest if you keep the rest above center. Especially if you keep the working part of the tool there too. The tool will be carried naturally toward the outside, tangent to the surface, where there's air not wood or iron. It will also not get underneath the wood because the diameter's less up top. Then remember what Dave Hout always says and whittle the ends, working back toward the middle so you don't get underneath a splinter.

I don't usually use a glue block, but when I have, I've always used either wood glue or hot glue. Using wood glue and clamping overnight worked the best for me.

Far as CA goes, doesn't it soak in too fast to get a really good bond? I would think it's just too thin, unless you've got some specialty stuff.

Careful with that polyurethane glue- it says it expands to fill gaps, and it does. But when it expands, it gets really, really weak. It's good stuff when you need it, for outdoor applications and the like, but not that great for doing things indoors- and it's expensive as well. You're better off with Probond or Titebond, IMO.

Wood glue and an F-clamp- if you don't have a suitable clamp, you could put a wieght on it or use the lathe itself as a clamp overnight if you use the tailstock to hold it together.

Hot glue does work as well, and once you get it to hold, it's plenty strong- but it usually takes me a couple of tries to get it to tack properly. Then again, I have a pretty cheesy glue gun, and I don't think it gets as hot as it should be- getting two pieces of wood glued together with it is tougher than forge welding.

99 times out of 100, nothing. That's why I rarely use a glue block- but there are some exceptions. My wife does pyrography, and sometimes the blanks she cuts out are less than even, so I stick them on a glue block and turn them round and put a little profile on the edge. But that doesn't happen that often, usually she does her burning on irregular or rectangular stock. She does her burning on 1/2" thick maple, for the most part, so a glue block is the best bet.

In those cases, putting screws into the back might not destroy the piece, but it just doesn't look as good.

I never use a glue block on end grain., and I seldom use a glue block, but if I do and the wood is dry when roughing out (very seldom here), I'll use hot glue, or CA, make sure the glue gun has heated up real well, before you use it and I usually will heat the wood as well with a heat gun, then put on the glue, twist, and clamp.

The foregoing is to much of a hassle, so I use CA more often, I will put on the thin CA an let it soak in and harden, after that I use the thick CA and clamp, and let it sit till it's hard, sometimes I will spray some accelerator on the seam if I don't trust it.

AND Before you start turning give it a real good tug, so you know it will stay on.

One more thing, almost always, I will have a shallow tenon and mortice, to align and for greater strength of the joint.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo