Just a question related to the topic of going big, but i did not want to ruin that thread. Some of the big metal lathes way a half ton or more and are stable enough to turn a large chunch of steel. Why would you not get one of those for large bowls? They look to be about half the price and the slow speed should be good not bad for large turnings. they all seem to come with chucks and threading capability and all that neat stuff. Besides, with a good clean up you could turn steel too. I am surely missing something here and am open to comment or critidism. I am not a metal turner by any stretch.
Metal lathes are generally quite large and heavy and not suitable for most hobby woodturners. However, for extreme precision woodturning, metal lathes are hard to beat. I know several people, who turn extremely intricate pieces, that use metal lathes to do the job. Most musical instrument makers use metal lathes because the average wood lathe does not provide the required precision.
I think the other point is that most woodturners like the capability to control the turning with hand held tools, it is a skill thing. Also, wood cuts cleaner at higher surface speeds; therefore, on small pieces higher rotational speed is needed to get the required surface speed. Most metal large metal lathes do not offer the higher speed option.
When I first started turning, I used a Craftsman metal lathe that I had for turning metal pieces for doing gunsmithing work. I simply needed to turn some wooden items and I had that lathe. I used a piece of angle iron as a tool rest, bolting it to the tool holder. This gave me the option of using hand held tools. That lathe also had a high speed range suitable for turning wood.
I think it might be a Swing thing. Large diameter bowls - by that I mean 24 or more inches in diameter - require a greater distance from between centers to the lathe's ways. And you need to deduct some from that dimension to the tool rest banjo. Machinist lathes - that you can actually fit in an amateur/hobbiest "shop" just don't have that sized swing.
The other issue is hollowing in from the end. If you've spent any time at all leaning over the lathe doing hollowing you soon learn that supporting your upper body weight with your lower back almost guarantees some Chiropractor an income enhancement, or some time on the couch with either a heating pad or an ice pack. Add leaning over farther to see inside the piece and the problem gets worse - in a hurry. Long lathe beds only add further to the leaning problem.
Now some lathe makers got around part of that Lean Over Work problem by providing the option of turning the drive end part 90 or 180 degrees - for "outboard turning". That solution however, requires some way to support the tool rest. Swing out arms attached to the lathe's base has been one solution. Others have come up with a stand alone stand to hold the tool rest. Neither solution is as good as the one Stubby came up with - the three ways positions options PLUS the ability to rotate their answer to the normal banjo to support the tool rest.
The Stubby significantly reduces the leaning over problem - adjustable center height, short bed when you need it, longer when you need that, and multiple solid locations for supporting the tool rest.
While the OneWay addresses some of these "challenges" it's center height is fixed and there's no way to mount a solid tool rest support at 90s to the long axis.
Metal lathes just don't have the flexibility of this type of special lathes.
I don't mean to argue from my position of ignorance, but are you sure that weight for weight, and particularly swing for swing, a metal lathe with the same 'credentials' as a woodturning lathe doesn't cost a whole lot more? I love my Sheldon metal lathe, but it only swings 10 in. and it cost a lot more than my 10 in. VL100.
The usual (not sure about brake drum and other special use machines) metal lathe that could swing a 24 in. bowl would likely not fit into a home shop as well as a wood lathe of equal quality and swing. I don't think most metal lathes have outboard adaptability.
IMHO, a Canadian, American, Australian Belgium or British metal lathe with the overall quality, swing and rpm range of a Oneway, Robust, Vicmarc, Wivamac or VB36, ...and that great lathe sold by a first rate fellow turner in St. Louis will cost thousands more. At least, I'd presume so, since precision geared spindles, back gears, carriages, compounds, power feeds, threading gears, etc, don't come cheap.
I don't know if stripped down metal lathes suitable for turning wood are available, but I'd think a high quality metal lathe without its high quality tooling is more helpless and useless than a similar quality wood lathe without its accessories.
No problem working over the bed, really, just don't employ the techniques you'd use on the end, rather those suited for cutting at centerline. I stand straight up and work bowls, I just use different gouges suited to the task.
Even "hollow forms" can be done favorably with the right tool selection.
Interesting answers guys, thanks. By the way, the biggest piece I have personlly seen on a lathe was a yellow birch burl that eventually became a
4 1/2' (that is foot not inch) bowl which was used as the pedestal for a dining room table. The lathe was home made from 8" timbers and used an old farm motor for drive. It worked well and as I recall, without vibration.
You are right about being able to buy more weight and quality if you go and get a metal lathe, right now Busy Bee has a shortbed 13X24 I think for less than $2100.00 Can. However there are some real problems for most people, unless they are capable machinists and are willing to spend the time to make and/or add the required parts, equipment. Upside is you do get some real good heavy and solid headstock, bed and tailstock, and everything lines up, just no comparison to a wood turning lathe, and if capable, you then can make equipment and tools yourself, at a fraction of the store price. I use a metal lathe every day (more or less) to turn wood on, and I would not trade for a wood lathe if that was the only lathe I could have, but I would like a large Oneway as an extra lathe, I do have a Delta mini lathe 10" swing, and take that one along for turning small stuff, when I go visit my sons or to wood club events. But as usually there are trade offs, unless changes made ( which one can do) the top RPMs are much lower than on a wood lathe, mind you I personally do not need 4000 RPM speeds, the swing is less than most people like to have, 13" is not very big for a swing, and the lathes are capable of swinging much larger. So I build a outboard platform that lets me turn 32" and can be expanded for larger if needed/wanted, I build a banjo that has the regular excentric shaft for lock down, and I use the taper both inboard and outboard in the headstock shaft to hold my chucks or face plates, and there is no problem turning clock or counter clockwise, the headstock spindle also has a large open center compared to a wood lathe, 1 3/8" if I recall right, very handy at times. However I do not have a tailstock on the outboard side, and sometimes wish I did have one, I could build one, but so far have not done that. It is sweet turning outboard, nothing to interfere with your position, no bending or twisting or demand for the use of only this or that tool, it is wide open and I just love it. And after more than 45 years of turning ( there are a few years missing in between here and there) I would not want it any other way, turn wood , turn metal, spin metal, I'm having fun.
Want to know more ?? there is a photo album with a few pictures that show some of the points I was trying to get across. And you can ask if you would like to know more.
Hi Charlie Larger D swing need larger distance between center and ways ??, I guess so, but it would not make any difference if wood or metal lathe, right. Leaning over the ways, might bother some times, but less so than having broken tool rest hit your foot, from one of those swinging headstock wonders, that are a struggle EVERY time trying to line the headstock up again when moving the headstock back. Having a outboard setup like the Oneway offers, would do away with the leaning over, would it not ??, and why would one want to build a tool rest 90 degrees to the lathe axes, I do know that when owners of other lathe makes want a banjo and tool rest that stays put, they DO buy a Oneway banjo and tool rest. As for height adjustment, most people do not change height much between morning and afternoon, When ordering a Oneway they will ask the height you do want your lathe spindle to be, and build it for you, then there is also a 4" adjustment on the lathes, seems like a lot more flexibility than most other lathes offer, IMO. Of course one could always use a pallet to stand on if one's to short, ;-)))
formatting link
And Yes Metal lathes are a class al by themselves aren't they ??? Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo
Thanks Leo Nice stuff. I book marked the page but I will add it to my links if you do not mind. It answers a lot of questions about using a metal lathe for wood. Can you thread a box with that thing? I really have neither the money nor the desire to change lathes but I like to ask questions.
Wow Leo, that's an awful lot of machinery for the money. As a metal lathe & tooling can it approach the quality (by which I mean the iron, the castings, the machining, the tolerances, the back up service etc. etc, anyway near the way a Stubby does as a wood lathe, (or your own metal lathe for that matter) or is one an apple and the other an orange? Of course, some probably don't really care whether they eat an apple or an orange. :)
I think you laid out the reasons very well why a metal lathe as well as a home built lathe will, but not always be a compromise for most turners. Thanks.
Hi Arch It is what it is, not a cadilac metal lathe, tolerances are good, the castings are typical Taiwanese, rough and rather soft. But compared to a wood lathe, you do get a lot for your money, good tapered bearings in a oil bath, large strong head shaft, tailstock slides on the prism ways and to stay aligned, the tailstock is also much better fitting than the typical wood lathe and stays put when locked down, etc. I find it does service my need as both a wood turning lathe or a engine lathe, and the price was right. Is it as good a wood lathe as a Stubby or a Oneway ? Close IMO, and as a metal turning lathe it wins hands down of course, as you say we're comparing apples and oranges in this case.
Thanks, and yes you certainly can link to it, that's really why I put it up in the first place, to answer some of the questions that are raised, about the use of a metal lathe for turning wood.
Can it turn threads ?? It can turn a whole range of thread sizes, but you would have the same problems with the wood having to be very dense to get a good surface, especially if one was to use a scraper like tool.
One could build a bracket to hold a router on the tool carriage and then use the thread cutting cutter as some other setups use, then choose whatever tread one would like, and you could use less dense wood and still get a decent surface on the wood, Bonnie Klein uses that kind of setup I think.
What works really good is turning straight inside boxes with a flat bottom, holding a tool the regular metal turning way, and than shape/ finish the outside in a freehand wood turning way.
I guess from my point of view, you'd be paying way too much for a wood turning lathe if you go that route. A wood lathe is simple, and fairly inexpensive- but an engine lathe has all sorts of thing you don't need to turn wood, and runs as much a 5x the price.
OTOH, if you were to get one, you can do a lot of interesting and precise work with it if you ever needed to turn metal. Don't know how well they work turning wood, but I would imagine that as long as the wood is turning and you have a tool rest on it, it would be fine.
InspirePoint website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.