Is this group simply dying

OK, I'm not very active on this group, but I do check in, and lurk once or twice a day. Over the past several years I've noticed peaks and valleys in posting. I am very much indebted to the faithful here, and always get good answers to questions.

Seems like summers are a little slow, but pick up when the rain and snow begin.

Thanks to you, Fred for all that I've gleaned from your posts, and for the incredible wealth of material available through your website.

Some of the ISP's (like Comcast, for example) have stopped their free newsgroups service, and that could certainly be a factor. I tried reading it through Google, but I'm not sure I see everything.

Don't give up!

Old Chief Lynn

Hi Fred,

I have enjoyed your posts and even took your magazine for awhile which had many good articles. I know that after 10/25 comcast in our area will no longer bring us free newsgroups. We will also have to find another source. Maybe a lot of companies are doing this just to squeeze a few more bucks out of us.

I hope this group also picks back up because I have learned much from it and you.

Tim D

I also suspect that summer time (US, not Oz) still sees people doing outdoor things instead of interneting or maybe even working in their shops, generating questions that need to be answered here.. For my own little "vanity" website, I track hits for 19 of my pages by season and have seen this "lower in summer" pattern for years. Of course, for me, things like my Cub Cadet page peak in the summer and the Maple Syrup page peaks between February and May.

I do add content to try to keep some freshness, too. Maybe the thoughts about OT postings and flaming do come to bear, too.

Pete Stanaitis

-------------------

Fred Holder wrote:

I check messages regularly. I don't join in much because, as a beginner, I can't really contribute anything useful - but I do learn a lot from this group and appreciate all the good information that gets published here. I'd rather see a few useful messages than, like certain other newsgroups, hundreds of off-topic, flame, spam or generally irrelevant junk.

Well people may be leaving but here's one newcomer now reading.

As someone who has recently acquired a very simple lathe but not yet made anything, I look forward to learning something here

Stuart

Fred, Actually some of us block Google groups due to the higher percentage of spam from this source. Yes, I too check in a couple of times a day but don't participate actively as much as I could.

I think it's just fluctuating, Fred, like all groups do..

2 other factors come to mind:

With the major ISP's not supporting newsgroups, it will take a while for folks to find new news servers..

I've read a LOT of folks posts saying that they're avoiding the groups until after the election, due to all the political threads..

I read all messages here once or twice a day and post if I can help, or be a smart ass.. ;-]

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I have been enjoying the group and getting great value. I don't always post but I do get alot of good information from the list.

I've been a lurker and a minor poster for years, and there are definite times of year that it seems to drop off. Leo, Arch, Mac and CharlieB have always had some good information or thought provoking posts. I know I've seen serveral times, usually around the end of November where the, "Sorry I've been out enjoying the beautifull turning weather," posts. I will be looking for a decent outside provider so I can still get my random Arch fix after Comcast drops their service

Mike

To make kindling is human, to finish the "project" divine.

In message , Fred Holder writes

Hi Fred

I have been on the web for over ten years now and have seen a steady decline in newsgroups, and forums. One newsgroups that I participated in for a considerable time that had 50+ messages a day has almost died a death. My own forum has seen a steady decline over the last 5 years. It is only on a mailing list I belong to does the membership remain as high as it ever was, though many of the long standing members tend to lurk.

There are a number of issues.

How many times can an existing member post the same subject, or find a different way to post the same subject? Once you have talked on something several times, it becomes of less interest, and is only when a new member comes along and asks the question, does the old answer get resurrected

Ten years ago the Internet was still in its infancy, Newsgroups were one of the first places to find information on topics of interest. These days as many of you have discovered how to build your own website, put much of your knowledge there, so often no need to put it here. In addition to this the Internet search engines have become better in what they do, finding the answer to the question.

Yet more growth and the Internet has provided video sources such as Youtube, where you can see how to do something, and as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

As time has passed , the better sites have become more popular,, consolidating their position, and the poorer sites dropped by the wayside. In my own area of interest, my website has been number one on Google for almost 10 years, but as the time has passed, there is little if no competition left. Many sites having been set up by students, with no further interest, as it was something to pass the time during education./

Forums see a rise in membership as the kids return to education in the Autumn, and drops off again as summer approaches, its a common cycle.

There is also the factor that like many other hobbies, the age of those interested is in general rising. In Amateur Radio, very few youngsters join the hobby so the core age has risen considerably. Woodturning I would say is likewise, dare I say for many it is a sport for retirement ?

Engineering is in a general decline in the UK, and I suspect elsewhere. On top of that there is a lack of enquiring minds out there, and dare I say it common sense, so less interest. If it can be run from a keyboard, or better still a remote, its going to be time consuming for those, without patience, whose lives are so busy, chasing around doing nothing.

I addition to all that. Clubs have grown, providing a local venue for many, though I must say for me it is more convenient to ask the odd question here, as I still believe there are many more on here than at a local group, so greater variety of solutions.

The decline will continue as Woodworking forums appear, grow , decline, merge.

The net is stilll evolving and once they get over spending their time bloggging, maybe people will discover that there is a real world out there with things to discover

I agree with this. Quality will return after the big meltdown.

I don't think I've contributed here before, but I've been reading for a year or so.

I think that the main reason that this newsgroup (as well as many others) is dying is that it is text only. A lot of discussions are made clearer by referencing photos/drawings and that is easier on the various forums that exist (I use

and WOW). UKWorkshop, for example, lets me post messages that have embedded images rather than having to post a message that says to follow various links. It can take a while to get used to because you require personal image hosting but, once set up, it's pretty straightforward. Another potential problem with newsgroups is that they are un-moderated, and this can lead to spam problems and discussions that get out of hand. Duncan

Alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking can be used, referenced from here, but it seems a lot of ISPs are now blocking binary groups.

I'm OK personally because I use a small, admittedly more expensive than many, independant ISP, whose owner listens to his customers and gets his feed from Giganews.

A good point Fred, however I like many others in the UK enjoy reading posts from the USA. I get on the newsgroup daily, but must confess that my postings are not as frequent as they should be. It's like a club annual general meeting. Everyone wants the benefits but don't want to get too involved! Maybe your little dig will kickstart some life into a few more keyboards. We all enjoy turning, so let's tell our global friends what we are making, the pitfalls endured and the solutions that may just help others. After all, we are a community!

Charlie

Wood, the most alive dead substance on the planet!

I'm aware of that group but it's extra hassle to come here and then have to follow links to images over there when I can go to a forum and see a message with embedded images.

My ISP does carry the group but I've never bothered to subscribe - it's mostly none turning and I'm mainly interested in turning.

Duncan

One of the problems forgotten by the majority of Internet users these days is that images are BIG, they may help illustrate a point but are a bandwidth killer. A friend recently lived in Nigeria, and his Best connection speed was about 28K for a few hours a day when the web was working and for the occasional week per month when the copper cables hadn't been stolen ! and that was in the region of $60 US a month IIRC. Basically its forgotten that there are many out there with a slow expensive connection speed.

Many websites now provide bandwidth hogging flash etc., forgetting the user who pays per minute. This is where newsgroups stand on their own.

I think also many ISP's just don't give enough information on what newsgroups are about.

And then there are those who have tried newsgroups, not knowing that they really shouldn't put their email address unless they want to join the billion and 1 spam lists :) It sort of frightens them off

As to newsgroups being unmoderated, that is not strictly true, you can set up newsgroups that are moderated, just in this case its not

In the UK the government wants 90% of homes on the NET, which is easily achievable, but then you will probably find 80% of the users are not "Internet Ready" :)

To me, it's a trade off.. I'd rather take the time to go to APBW and see the pictures that interest me, than be on a browser-based forum and see pictures (and sometimes ads) with each post..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

It might be a little slow over the summer but it better not die, where else am I going to find all of my expertize. Ask a ? get a half dozen great answers from someone thats been there done that. I need you folks. Have just started trying to do some natural edge oblong bowls all small, this is something I would not of tried on my own but with help form the groups I gave it a shot and they didn't come out to bad, but sanding in thin air is a very delitate touch or a big ouch. Hope everyone gets to turn something new just for the heck of it.

Fred -

Hope this gets out and to you - So many of the ISP's are killing usenet. This is from scare and threats from RIAA.

There were or are audio and video groups that were claimed (guess they were) posting copyrighted information.

Shamefully the ISP's killed the servers themselves and RIAA etc. ignored the East and West coast farms that all ISP's draw from should have deleted the groups. And only an ISP can create a group through requesting it through a farm.

I had to pay a monthly fee with another supplier to get back online.

AND for wood - IKE gave me some nice turning wood.

Martin