Musing about the current state of woodturning

Strange you should bring this up, though perhaps you're looking at the same Molly thread on WC as I was this morning. I'll cut and paste from an e-mail I sent to another turner.

"Rejection and juries under discussion reminds me.

I can still remember a "how to enter juried shows" presentation I attended years ago, where this ditsy (photographer) who was dean at the A&D department at the college taught me a valuable lesson. She looked at a piece I had turned end grain with both heart in and a knot with reaction wood running on the side, and said "it has more than one center of interest. It will distract people, and detract from the piece if you don't limit it." The lesson? Never pay to have "experts" jury anything. I avoid shows with a non-refundable jury fee now. Of course, it's easy to do, given my limited production capability, but I always think back to her, and her type, who think I can make a knot go away, as if I were a painter, and base their judgment on that.

Oh well, all but one entry has been sent to the tender mercies of other "artists," normally painters, so nothing to be done. Looks like today will have abundant sunlight to shoot for the final one. They said they'd take digital, so that's what I'll do."

I'd be nice to have a potter, a turner, and maybe a flat wood worker on the jury. They would understand the limitations placed on us by method and material, though works not in the current "trendy" genre might still be rejected. We just do what we must to gain the opportunity to place our work before the real jury - the buying public. I tend to shoot one standard bowl, one spalted, and one interrupted edge as my three slides. A little bit for the practical as well as the artsy types.

Well, some feel that true art requires some sort of risk. If it was easy, it wouldn't be art.

And peers can recognize risk. But an artist will do it for the sheer challenge. Then again many times the artist isn't recognized while alive.

George, thanks for your usual good response. I looked over at WC, but I wasn't musing about Molly or Dave or any of the respondents to that thread. I count each one a superior turner with intellectual integrity. Should any of them look this way, please know that you aren't who I had in mind or meant to allude to and I'm not supporting mediocrity by saying so.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

It is easy to make the knot go away. Just don't enter the piece. I'm not saying she was right, but it sounds like she gave a fair judgement based on 'art' and her background. Photographers probably never show more than 10% of the shots they take.

We do have limitations in the material we use and it is correspondingly more difficult for us to reject a piece we have put so much effort into, but if we want to be judged as 'artists' we will be judged by the standards of 'art'.

I turn wood for the pleasure and relaxation it gives me. I find when working on an interesting piece of wood my mind is free from a thousand other pressures. I don't turn to exhibit or sell, I enjoy giving my turnings away to those who genuinely appreciate them. When I finish a turning and I like it then really, that's all that matters to me. I guess if I worried about the "discriminating public" then I wouldn't want this as a hobby.

Lobby Dosser wrote in news:hHh2e.15533$Go4.6574@trnddc05:

Potters refer to the experience as 'making rocks'. So much of the output is dependent on variables which are quite difficult to control, outside of a factory.

Knowing what to keep, and what to convert back to fuel, is something the woodworker needs to learn, as fundamental as sharpening a tool edge.

Patriarch

"Bruce Barnett"

Andy Warhol did a movie once of the empire state building shot from however many angles and going for however many hours. I can only imagine the risk he took was that of looking like a fool.

'High art' forms have their existance justified by themselves. (Art for Art's sake) Yet turning wood is necessary to create a round leg for a chair or a hollowed out bowl. I think that as our art has a purpose (other than itself) we aren't considered true art. mick

Yep. And I create a Lot of Fuel.

Truly, a hobby is something done strictly for oneself. Not for profit. Not for glory. Only for self gratification. I have a second hobby. For nearly twenty years, I've sang barbershop music. Although I sing in front of audiences and wanted to please them, my only real pleasure was the harmonizing and "doing it the best I could". Although the chorus will charge for singing, it's to keep the chapter alive and support music education in schools. No money comes to me. In fact, like wood turning, it's costing me to maintain the hobby.

My wood turning (for what it's worth at this early stage) is little different than my barbershop singing. I do it for myself. Sure others are going to see what I've done and I'd like them to appreciate it. However, everyone has their opinion just like I do. I reshaped a piece of wood to make something I found pleasant to my eye. If others like it, great. If they don't, so be it. I have my pleasure and that's all that matters to me.

I think that once a profit is being made from the "hobby" that it has progressed into a business - no matter how small it is. Pleasure can still be derived from the business but it's no longer a true hobby.

Bill, I hope to get to the point you are at. I expect to take additional pleasure in giving my pieces away. I suppose you can call a smile and thank you a payment, but it's no profit.

Arch,

I would say that some woodturners view their critique group as their club members or other turners. Some view their customer base as their critique group. Some view gallery owners as the critique group. All have a part to play in our development, but none should be considered exclusively.

I once made a very nice vase with a good form that had a big knot hole in the side. I thought it was great. My wife didn't like the knot hole. She is not a woodturner and has no appreciation for that. I had another piece that had a crack which I filled with red epoxy. My mom loved that piece and still displays it in her house to this day. The consumer often cares very little for the process or the difficulty of a piece. They just go for what they like - however artistically informed they may or may not be.

A gallery owner has his/her eye toward what sells. It that always the best art? Maybe - maybe not. I was traveling through the redwoods last summer and ran across a little souvenir shop. They had 10" redwood bowls for $100 and more. These were quite chunky with poor form (IMHO). They had screw holes in the bottom. They probably sell quite well.

Woodturners are often the most likely reviewers of our work. They stick their fingers in hollow vessels to feel for ridges. They hold thin bowls up to the light to see translucence. They hold object to judge balance. They look for sanding marks. My wife has never done any of these things.

Joe Fleming - San Diego

You're right Joe. As woodturners, we tend to place a higher expectation on our work. Similarly, we seek affirmation for what we do from others. What I may see as a very nice piece, because I know what went into making it, may be seen by others as a piece of junk. If my reaction to that is to try to please others, then I will go from creating art to creating consumer goods. I have a piece that I will never give away because, a) I don't think it's good enough to go elswhere and, more importantly, b) there is something about the piece that just makes me want to handle and look at it. Other people say it's very nice, but there is not the passion that I feel. If I could produce pieces like that all the time I would be very happy but the house would be full of stuff that only I like.

I guess we need to compromise. Creating pieces that we enjoy and then pieces that others enjoy. Both are equally challenging but have different satisfaction levels.

I think you'll find this with any form of artisanship or craftsmanship as well as trades. I remember as an apprentice fitter and turner, being told by a very old tradesman that it is important to make sure that your work looks good as well as doing the job it was designed for. That attitude seems to be lacking somewhat now as can be seen by the huge amount of commercial stuff being produced by woodturners. I accept that they need to make money, but a lot of the stuff looks so similar that you can hardly tell the difference.

Sorry for the long rave, but it's my humble opinion that we need to remain true to ourselves as well as our art. Don't stop making commercial pieces, but try to put some of yourself into them.

Paul.

When I began to get seriously interested in woodturning (over 3 years ago), I made up my mind, early on, that I was going to get a decent starter lathe, buy some good quality tools, read a lot and learn how to do it properly.

I had seen some very feeble attempts by others at wood turning. These efforts usually manifested themselves in objects that looked a lot like tire knockers, ashtrays, etc. This type of woodturning was not for me.

Everyone has seen these things. We have all seen guys who starts with a piece of wood in the lathe, but doesn't decide what it's going to be until he is almost finished. Then he only has to decide what it looks most like. No plan. No purpose. Just making shavings.

Well, it's over three years later and I don't do tire knocker or ashtrays. I have turned a few decent paperweights, boxes and bowls. I've come a long way (in my humble opinion), but I still have a long, long way to go before my skills are anywhere near respectable.

That's what I like about woodturning, the more you learn, the more you find you don't know. But, it's a fascinating hobby that I would heartily recommend to anyone.

Barry

Sorry Arch.

I couldn't care less what my "peers" think, and I certainly doubt they care what I think. Altogether too many "clubs", be they orchid societies or woodturning organizations, are merely mutual admiration societies and venues for (often only nominal) "experts" to stroke their ego.

I spend an inordinate amount of time picking through available wood (either in the lumber yard or in the wild) to find a stick that speaks to me. In using that special piece I attempt to avoid "murder in the woodshop". Only I know if I succed. And even if I do "It doesn't mean shit to a tree" (Jefferson Airplane, 1969)

I know a lot of us turn so we will not get critiqued to severe by our fellow turners and others don't give a flip. My sister owns a shop which sells my bowls in East Glacier, Montana and she asked me to watch customers when they handled my bowls as they shopped. They chose the heaver bowls, I guess they thought they were getting more for their money or they liked the way the bowls looked and felt. I had been thinking thin was in, but the customers wanted thicker. Oh Well, lesson learned. Sometimes we should listen to the people that buy rather than the experts when it comes to design. Just my 2 cents.... Glenn Hodges Nashville, GA

I tend to agree with you Glenn. Sometimes I'll do a thin bowl, especially if it's a small natural edge piece, but for a 'working bowl' like a 12" or 13" salad bowl it seems like folks want something that'll take some handling. I usually make the walls about a half inch to 5/8" thick and it gives a good heft to the bowl w/o making it too heavy...

...Kevin