Knitted [metal] armor

wrote

and an Armor Vest that looks as if it`s

I've always thought that the "armor" in Monty Python's Holy Grail - which WAS knitted - was very cleverly done. Looks like it was knitted in black then highlighted with silver somehow? I haven't been able to find any information about it but I try to figure it out everytime I watch the movie!

It can be knitted in dishcloth cotton then sprayed silver.

Real mail is made from iron rings riveted together.

Mary

Thank you Mary , most people by now are aware of this `Image of knitting` Some of the armors are indeed made by many rings connected , and ome are made by a kind of knotted method or a kind of naaldbinding. mirjam

snipped-for-privacy@actcom.co.il spun a FINE 'yarn':

Snipped all the prior....

Mirjam . THANK you, Mirjam, I couldn't THINK of naalbinding for the life of me... it was on the tip of my fingers but not quite 'there'!!! I'd've jumped into this discussion sooner had I recalled what you DID! Hugs, Noreen

Are there any pictures online or websites about the knotted armors?

I know there is one simple headdress that is nalbinding in gold wire but I hadn't heard of armor done that way.

=Tamar

Just now i don`t know if i can find a picture, but i know that When we dug in some Crusader places, we found a rusted falling apart one and was made with one contineous metal thread, it looked like they looped it over some kind of stick, and than using a second one made the next Row , twisting the over row into the under row . Like intelocking twisting 2 metal springs on each other ,,, mirjam

...

How can (genuine) mail armour be made by nåhlbindning?

Even that made for modern use, e.g. metal gloves to protect butchers' hands, are made by connected rings. Nåhlbindning depends on flexible 'yarn' of some kind.

In fact (before anyone corrects me) my use of the word 'rings' is wrong because the elements are penannular - not enclosed. That's how the 'rings' can be threaded through each other. They only beconme complete circles when riveted together.

Mary

Mary , i really saw [at least three that i remember], local blacksmiths , who turned one spring over/into another and in this way made a kind of armour, strong, metal and flexible, if i hadn`t seen it with my own eyes i wouldn`t have thought it possible. People all over history, all over the globe were extremely efficient and talented in making all kinds of things, that they NEEDED. We get so many things ready made , that we forget to Praise the fantastic abbilities of people to MAKE objectes , [ some very complicated] themselves. As i wrote to you we found enough rusted broken parts , to understand how they were made,,, mirjam

Mary Fisher spun a FINE 'yarn':

Mary Do some research. Mirjam and I as well as quite a few others here who are really INTO renaisance times HAVE done the research, and know what of we speak. Noreen who knows you just have a vendetta against Mirjam, and will fight YOU every step of the way. SHE belongs, your ATTITUDE doesn't.

Thank you Noreen for your kind words. and to Mary, i have a ps ,,,, In Belgium , Brusselles in the "AFRICA " Museum, there are Several Straw and [dried] Grass and other Vegetable armors, that were collected through the ex colonies , from various tribes. I observed some of those quite closely. All are made with Contineous Fibers. None are made of any ringlets nore short parts squeezed into ringlets. People are very inventive and learn quick , for example , MarcoPolo went to China and learned there, part of Their techniques, he brought those home, and applied them to other materials, which his people had !!!!!! If you read how Technology and crafts spread, you will be amazed. I think you live in UK, look around you and see how many things in UK , were imported, and how many things your Sailors, merchants and misionaries taught to other people. mirjam

Mary , you made an effort to tell me that your name was almost like mine ,,,,,,thus why did you overlook that I specificly wrote that it was `some sort of,,,,` meaning it was not exactly but it looks quite like it !!!! mirjam

Ahem. You seem to have a vendetta against me, I don't against anyone :-)

And I do know quite a lot about armour; although I don't make it and we don't wear it (we're 100% non-combatant in role as well as in real life) many of my friends and fellow traders do. We're not 'into' rennaissance activities, we practise earlier skills. My husband is a metallurgist and takes a keen interest in such things. He's a very practical man (he does most of the mediaeval textiles in this house). I asked him about this matter yesterday evening, he said wire could be twisted into something resembling a pan scrub but it wouldn't be nåhlbindning - which needs a needle.

You really shouldn't assume that others have no experience or historical knowledge.

Next time I go to the Royal Armouries Museum (within walking distance of home) I'll ask the Curator of Armour (who we know because we've been involved with the Armouries since before it came to the city, we were invited to the Queen's opening) - but shan't bother putting his answers here because I suspect that they wouldn't be believed.

Mary

Why Do YOU assume we wouldn`t believe your Aquaintance`s answers. As a matter of habit, i always assume that people tell what they really know, and that i should respect their words as such. I am also open to the idea, that in different places, people used different methods to make armours. If you haven`t seen the kind i saw, and i haven`t [ i have in reality but i am now giving a Hypothetical example] seen the kind you saw , we might think that what we saw is the only kind. But this isn`t how it is , I have over the years seen at least 3 different technics made Armors, [maybe 4???] . I only saw them in digs [quite dirty] , or in museum, not in reconstructed copies... I believe you, that your husband is quite capable of doing many objects, but there still exist some techniques in which other people excell, and maybe your husband hasn`t met those. Nothing wrong with that ,,, I knit , weave, crochet, sew, embroider etc,, i don`t make macrame ,,,,,,,,, Does this make Macrame non existant ???? Ps i naaldbound with a bone, and with a stick , and with a clothpin. i have seen and touched a naaldbound Toesock from Metzada [more than

2000 years old]. each of us, your curator friend, your husband you and me=3D, have seen DIFFERENT things, and are better acknowledged with the things we saw... mirjam

I don`t know if you have a vendetta, but it sure feels to me that you have a kick out of opposing everything i say. You even had the Unbelievable idea, of suggesting to me in your private letter that i ahouldn`t open your letters, because you have my good in your heart... You even posted here , a very offensive post against me and my culture. And now you wonder why some people feel you have something against me?

Both in other things as in that Horrid question you showed everybody here what parts of history you `preffer`. >

Knowledge isn`t a matter of belief ... mirjam

Ps it is YOU mary who constantly Hint that others know Less than you , i keep saying that others know DIfferent things,,, You remind me of the 10 blind men who walk in a line and meet an elephant,, one says the elephant has a tiny tail, one says it has big feet , one says it has a big TOE ,,,,, My elephant has all the parts even some parts i never saw ,,, your elephant seems to have only one part , the part that you can touch.

Now I remember why I quit reading this newsgroup for a few years...

That doesn't surprise me at all Chris and is something I considered the last time this sort of nonsense started. How on earth we expect to have any kind of peace elsewhere when we can't even have it on a small sewing group is beyond me!

It seems as though the word tolerance is meaningless.

Excuse me CHRIS this Ng was always nice, considerate and every one was patient. The few people who thought that they+ had to be unkind , felt that this wasn`t the place and eventually stopped doing it , After a nasty attack of foul posts a big part of this group mooved to a closed list. I am very sorry if my answer to Mary disturbed you , it seems that in the last weeks she jumps at my posts whatever i write........ mirjam

Bernadette as you know i enjoy writing and sharing many knitting crocheting weaving and art things, This doesn`t mean that any person has the right to say racial/ or religious things about me, i didn`t start jumping on that person , she does and i try to avoid it ,, but there are limits. mirjam

I know this Mirjam and have learned a lot from you. I know you also love to share the everyday things that make life interesting and joyful.

To my way of thinking no one person has the right to make judgements about another. You did not but others on this group did and I find that disgraceful!

and i try to avoid it

Mirjam, the situation between Israel/Palestine is so emotive that anything which touches on it automatically pushes the temperature, and tempers, higher. All I will say is that I have beloved friends who are Jewish and other beloved friends who are Palestinian. Listening to what they say enables me to have a little understanding of the Hell in which many people are living.

Bernadette