Well, I just started looking at your newsgroup and I must say that I > am appalled!!!!
> Let's read some of these comments again!!!!
> To Melinda and DAB: Where I work........you would be labeled as:
> racist, snobbish, narcississtic and paranoid. And I think that would
> be an accurate assessment of the two of you. You both make me so
> angry I could spit! How dare you talk to another human being like
> that. One could say that when we write, it is difficult to determine
> the feeling and thought behind those written words. I think your
> intent was quite clear.
Good for you....you know nothing about me or Melinda......I have been around USENET groups over 9 years and have seen ever kind of ploy to get money. This kid comes in the group and right away is asking for a so far non existent book to be sent to him. Several members took time away from what they were doing to search the net for additional information and found and posted the results for him to look at...but that wasn't good enough for him....he still whined about not having the money to buy the book on E-bay, my unasked question is if he saw it on e-bay why can't he give us the info needed to identify the book......Title and Author and perhaps a link to the e-bay posting......because he didn't do that red flags went up for me.
Since your pre-judging and jumping to this poor kids defense and projecting a holier than thou attitude I will assume your a Tree Hugger.
As I was writing this post.....I see that further down there are other
> responses from various other people.
>
> One tried to be nice to you (which neither of you deserved) and
> politely let you know that you were "out of line". But that wasn't
> enough for one of you..........you had to look this kid up and find
> out more about him..........so you come up with numerous requests
> from him for free material. Obviously that was suspect too! I
> wonder..........if, in fact he is poor......did it occur to you that
> perhaps he is looking for crafts to make/sell that might help to
> support his family. Or, perhaps he is looking for crafts to teach to
> others, maybe young children who have little or nothing, to give them
> something to do that is productive, and builds character and
> integrity. Or, maybe he is hoping to help his community by showing
> other adults these crafts, so they can do something to provide for
> their families. Or maybe it has nothing to do with poverty. Maybe
> he is a young man who follows his father's rules because he still
> lives in his father's home, and is attending college. Who knows what
> his reasons are. What difference does it make. He was only asking
> for a book. A book so he could teach himself something. A book on
> Ojo De Dios, "Eye of God". He wasn't asking for your checkbook. He
> said nothing about money. Someone is asking you about a book so he
> can teach himself to make something that represents "God" in some
> cultures. Instead of really trying to help him, you got nasty with
> him. You had an opportunity to do something good and you chose to
> ignore it. By the way.......have you seen the "God Speaks"
> billboards. Perhaps you should do a search for them and see what > they have to say.
Oh great a Bible Thumper too......which I have nothing against, to each his own.
Then, you add more insult to injury......."Most Americans get tired of
> people who constantly ask for handouts. That is not slander, it is
> just that begging is not socially acceptable
> in this country, as opposed to other countries where there is no
> means for an unemployable person to find a means of support."
>
> You accuse him of begging. He was asking for help. Hmmm, begging is
> not socially acceptable in this country, huh?!? Let's talk about the
> numbers of people who receive Social Security Disability (or are
> trying very hard to get it) and they don't deserve it. Let's talk
> about those people out there who don't want to work for a living and
> want to live off of some type of government assistance instead. I
> must clarify that I am not speaking of those who truly deserve these
> services. Nope! Begging in the US is not socially
> acceptable.......so people have found more savvy ways to get what
> they want. They know they can't beg, so they feign disabilities
> instead. You are right.....what you said about people asking for
> handouts is not slander. I agree, you did not slander Tim. You > insulted him!!!!!
> To David Skye: I would like to know just what it was that indicated
> to you that Tim was lazy and demanding. I got nothing like that from
> any of his posts. And if you think that those posts from Melinda and
> DAB were mild, then either you did not read carefully enough or like
> Melinda and DAB, you are bigoted and narcississtic. Those posts
> might have been considered mild, had Tim deserved what was doled out
> to him. But he didn't, which makes those comments just plain mean! >
Well as this is a crafts group I will restrain my fingers and continue to be Mild as you put it.
And we wonder why people in other countries don't like us!?!?!
>
I could care less what other countries think...they will think what they will.....most get there opinions of us from our TV Shows.
God help all of you.....you all need it! By the way
> Melinda......yes, I will send a book to Malaysia.
How nice of you.....what is the title and author's name? And BTW God helps those that help themselfs.
Hey, DAB, thanks for replying to this. The original message never Mae it to my news server.
I just went looking to see if it was a scammer poised as a poor third-world country resident. He wasn't. But he *did* have a past history of posting to various crafts groups asking for handouts. Since I looked at his background where he plainly stated what he was doing and why, I offered some information to cover a bigger picture than what he was looking for. And FWIW it was my conclusion that he was not one of those really devious scammer, which is why I came back and posted other suggestions.
(I am also not posting the exact reasons he stated for wanting this information on this newsgroup, which reasons colored my opinions and might color yours also.)
He specifically stated himself that he is not poor, but he did state that his father will not let him order anything off of the Internet, and he also said that the exchange rate between his local currency and dollars makes things unaffordable.
All of which are excellent reasons to learn to be self-sufficient and not depend on handouts from other people, and all of which would make my suggestions about learning to spin/weave/knit from locally available fibers excellent ones for a good long-term solution.
Go read in Queen Noor Al-Hussein's autobiography/memoirs, Leap of Faith, about what she did to help the desperately-poor people of Jordan is to work to give them opportunities to market locally-made handcrafts internationally. The workers did not need to ask for handouts. They used locally-available materials and Queen Noor made a way for them to be showcased internationally so that they would be sold and these crafters would earn money to help support their families. It was phenomenally successful and an excellent model to use.
Uh, yeah, he was. He was asking me to pay the shipping charges on the book and to gamble that he would have the shipping charges and the volition to send it back when he was done with it.
You're right. Nowhere did he offer to pay for the book, reimburse shipping costs in whole or in part, etc.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you have fed him for life. My philosophy is to teach them to fish, even sometimes give them a little bait so they know what they need to get, and then let them learn to fish so they can stand tall and not constantly have their hand out to others.
He was asking for a handout. Help would have been asking for web links.
I will concede that it could just be an issue of semantics, but I am pretty sure what David is referring to is people pointing Tim to web links, and then Tim replying back that we didn't understand what he was asking for; that he didn't want web links, he wanted someone to loan him a book.
(If he had initially asked for an unneeded book and offered to pay for postage or to send something particularly culturally Malaysian in response, I would not have considered it begging at all. It would have been a fair exchange in my eyes.)
You are reading something into what I said, at least, that is far beyond what I said.
If you have money to be able to afford to give it to *everybody* who asks you for it, well, God bless you. I don't, neither do my children, and I try to teach them to work for themselves to get what they need as independently as possible rather than learn to live off the public dole. I would give my own child the same suggestions that I gave Tim -- that instead of keeping looking for handouts, that they develop independent sources to get information, whether they rather than depend on other people to cover the cost of what they want to do. And I hate seeing anybody who is dependent upon handouts from other people and try to encourage them to be as independent as possible.
NP however I snipped out most of it.....which was quite a ramble.
I bought the book when it hit the stores.....very good read. My work brings me in contact with foreign nationals and I can say that in his part of the world there are no middle classes....like India.....The wealthy and the Poor. I have a friendship with a Jordian woman...her husband is assigned here for 2 years, she has been very bored and myself and another knitting friend has taught her to knit......she comes to our monthly meetings at the local Library and came for the first time to the Guild Meeting.....she was very well received and got a kick out of show and tell.....she has after only a few months knitted a hat and scarf for one of her young sons.
ow i am tottaly confused , somebody speaks about QUEEN NOOR and the next writer writes HIS part of the world .... His who ? what country ,,, Jordan isn`t to be compared with India in anyway specially not in class [social or economical ] matters ... mirjam
We weren't talking about India. We were talking about empowering impoverished people to enable them to become self-supporting and whether or not providing them with unlimited handouts from richer people is a better way to accomplish that as compared to teaching them to develop their own way of earning a living.
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