The Death of Ski Sweaters and Ganseys - Long

Yarnstandards.com is the end of ski sweaters and fisherman's ganseys. I am not saying that the Standard Yarn Weight System is the cause of the end of ski sweaters and fisherman's sweaters, any more than a bridge is the cause of the end of a road, but when you get to the end of the road, there is the bridge.

Nobody skis in sweaters any more, for one very good reason - Modern sweaters are too loosely knit. A real ski sweater needs to be tightly knit and close fitting. (Recently, I went downhill skiing, and was the only one on the slopes wearing a sweater. There were many people in the lodge, the restaurants, the shops, and the town wearing "ski sweaters," so I know "ski sweaters" were around, but I was the only person actually skiing in a sweater.)

Modern designers assume that their creations will be worn in modern heated environments, and therefore should not be too warm. These days, skiers wear their sweaters in the car, and in the lodge, and not schussing down the slopes. Thus, modern ski sweaters are knit loosely and have a loose fit that keeps them from being too warm.

Likewise, nobody wears fisherman's sweaters fishing any more! So, designs that were traditionally knit tightly to be very warm are now knit loosely, so they are not so warm. (Fine stitch patterns are now done large and look crude.)

We have established a feedback cycle. Our knit goods are designed to be cooler, so that they can be worn in warmer environments. Then, when somebody wants real cold weather gear, they select a pile jacket rather than the available knit goods. If people are not wearing knit goods in really cold environments, then there is more tendency to design knit goods that are not so warm -- that is: loosely knit and loosely fitting. Today we design sweaters for folks that are going to the mall, rather than for folks that are going to fish, or to ski or sailing , or to follow the hunt. We have abandoned the sports wear market. We make imitation sports wear.

The needle recommendations in the yarn standards are to knit fabrics that are loose, and not too warm. As long as we follow those recommendations, our knitting will be porous to the drafts, and flutter in the breeze. And worse, they will sag. And they will not be so durable, after all, the standards assume that you want a "cool" fashion statement.

Save your man from frostbite. Knit him a ski sweater out of worsted weight wool on #3 needles. Keep your boy warm by knitting him a gansey out of DK weight on # 1 needles. (Then, send them off skiing and fishing. They need the exercise!) And then, make yourself a cup of tea with water heated on a fire fueled by a your print out of the Standard Yarn Weight System, because the price of energy is going up and we are going to need warmer sweaters.

Aaron

Reply to
<agres
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Very true, Aaron.

Higs, Kather> Yarnstandards.com is the end of ski sweaters and fisherman's ganseys.

Reply to
Katherine

(big snip of a wonderful post)

Loved your post.... years ago I had a wonderful wool ski sweater, and when it fit me, I did wear it skiing during the spring. Skiing in Canada in January absolutely calls for a warm jacket, and those wonderful hand warmer thingies. (laugh)

Not that many years ago I knitted an Aran sweater for my DIL from a cotton/acrylic blend. Before you puke, she absolutely could not wear wool. It is tightly knit and she wears it spring and fall for walking her dog. She loves the sweater and the washability. That sweater is the one of the nicest items I've ever made, and I'm very proud of it. It's right up there with my lace weight mohair shawl.(grin) Both of which can be seen in my Yahoo album: Aran sweater:

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shawl:
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Reply to
Shillelagh

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:09:11 GMT, spewed forth :

I'm working on a modified gansey right now. I'm using traditional

5-ply yarn and knitting on 2mm needles at a gauge of 8spi. The going is slow because knitting at that tension aggrevates the "fixed" thumb, but knitting it I am. It won't be finished anytime soon and it'll be overkill for my current climate, but I grew up with winter so I have a fine appreciation for a good sweater.

Yes, and in this age of instant gratification big yarn on big needles makes for fast projects. Just about right for people with "adult ADD" who subsist on fast food and get their news in "soundbites" rather than sitting down with a newspaper.

Do the wives (me!) and daughters (none of my own, but you take my point) not need warm woolies when they excurse into the great wintery outdoors? Probably not, its a known scientific fact that women have more body fat than men. That's why all the crones in the old photos are wearing only a few shawls while their menfolk are bundled up in those gorgeous handknit ganseys.

Most of us do, at least here in the Obesity Capital of the World (aka, the USA).

I don't have a copy of that. Will they send me a truckload free? If so I do have a paperlog roller left over from my days in the Great White North when I relied exclusively on a woodburner for my household heat.

Amen, brother!

+++++++++++++

Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET. This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...

Reply to
Wooly

Shelagh,

I just looked at your pictures and they are absolutely Beautifu! Your work is inspiring.

Hesira

Reply to
hesira

For real ganseys try long DPN with a knitting sheath to take strain off of your thumb.

I do not understand the concept of instant gratification. These days people knit for fun. If they need clothing, they go to the mall. Knitting tight just means more stitches which means more fun!?

Many a sailor knit for himself to keep himself from freezing on the Finnish Sea. Girls of any age are far better able than any man, to be able to knit for themselves, anything that they need. The fine Irish shawls were status pieces to demonstrate that they had time to knit for themselves. (And, if you like Mrs. Tourist, I will knit one for you!) Their knit long underwear is what kept them warm, but it is not shown in the photos.

Aaron

Reply to
<agres

Higs, Katherine

Reply to
Katherine

About a dozen years ago, a local attorney won a sweater's worth of my knitting skills at a charity auction. I made him a proper, four-color Norwegian ski sweater out of Dale yarn. (He provided the yarn; I believe it was over $100 worth.) Worsted weight, knitted on #5s, I think. Took me from February through September to finish it. I wish I had taken a picture of it. I'm sure it kept him warm on the slopes.

G
Reply to
Georgia

It is my "bobbles" that slow me down!

Reply to
<agres

(blush!) Thank you very much..... one thing to remember (giggle), those two pictures show what I think are my two best knitting projects.

Shelagh

Reply to
Shillelagh

No. Not for me. I don't care to use needles smaller than #11 because of an old wrist sprain that gets aggravated when curling the last two fingers of my left hand around smaller needles. It hurts! So I like the larger size needles and looser knits. I do have a tendency to re-do a lot of my work because I'm not satisfied with some aspect of it all, so I get to prolong all that fun.

sue

Reply to
suzee

I think Aaron that the real reason for this is that manmade Non knit sport clothes are esier to take care of , than handknits , and that is the main reason for less use of kbnitted sweaters . Also so manmde material Suits are Water proof, which is usefull when somebody skies. And last but not least the long time that many people knitted less ,, you have to remember that knitting is having a Come back....but for so many years many women didn`t knit ...It was Cheaper easier and much more REASONABLE to use the wonderful easy to take care of wonderful ready made Sports suits. With all respect to your words , you start your idea from the end result and work it back to explain it.On the way you sort of disregard the Trend , the changes in working forces [ more women working with having kids and having to copre with 100s other `little duties` - thus no time to knit`. It might do you good to read a bit about Herstory, and see how that affected the use of certain clothing items. Social trends are affected not only by 'Heating` , they are much more affected by the Economic Needs of the powers that Be , that needed the women in the Workforce , thus fashion and trends were mobilized, just like in the 15th century when women were shown the pictures of the "Knitting Maddona " with the Behind push to become 'housewives' , Now trends and fashions had the behind push "Buy more ready mades go work in office !!!!" ... mirjam mirjam

Reply to
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen

Why?

Higs, Katherine

Reply to
Katherine

I went to mall, after mall, after mall, and I looked at commercially available ski sweaters and noting that they were not as suitable for skiing as sweaters available 40 years ago. The sweaters that I skied in 40 years ago were also commercially machine knit. My post was to note a change in commercial practice since WWII that had implications for the craft and hobby of knitting.

As I was leaning about knitting ganseys, I would knit swatches using the needles recommended on the yarn band, and not get the results that I was seeking. I found this very confusing and frustrating. My post was the result of puzzling on this for a couple of years. I stated that the needles commonly recommended on yarn bands are not the correct needles for real ski sweaters and real ganseys. The Yarn Standards reflect recent practices of knitwear designers. These designers try to maximize the appeal of their garments. Since more Yankees go to the mall, than go skiing or sailing, these designers produce garments that are more suitable for mall wear than for skiing or for sailing. My post was to remind hobby knitters of the traditions of knitting on finer needles.

One virtue of knitting is that truly beautiful garments can be constructed out of a wide variety of materials including silk, acrylic, nylon, and polypropylene. But, some traditional knit fabric constructions take great advantage of properties unique to particular wool yarns. Such garments are more elegantly attractive than any "sports suit". However, I believe that because knit wool is inherently warm, many modern knitwear designers compromised these traditional approaches to fabric construction to produce garments that are more appropriate in warmer environments (and cheaper!!!) In these compromises, some of the traditional beauty and functionality of the traditional constructions has been lost. That is the nature of compromises. My post was to remind folks that the traditional knitwear constructions have their own significant virtues.

Most craft and hobby knitters will want to follow the lead of modern knitwear designers and knit looser fabrics with more "ease". Modern knitwear designer are after all -- experts. My post was to remind knitters that there are alternative approaches that can produce truly wonderful results. One can deviate from the yarn standard, and still produce "superior" knitting. As hobbyists, we (sometimes) have the luxury of devoting extravagant amounts of time to knitting products that are far superior to items commercially produced for the mass market. My post was to point out an opportunity for competent amateurs to produce results that far exceed those of the modern professionals. Such opportunities are rare.

Aaron

Reply to
<agres

Ahhh, the question is - did you go to any ski shops? I've been in some in the past few years and the sweaters are knit similarly to the ones of

30+ years ago. Department store `ski sweaters' aren't made to be skied in, but to be seen in -- at the lodge. ;)

Thank you for your reminder.

sue

Reply to
suzee

Reply to
<agres

Your point about "Department store sweaters" is my theme exactly. Now, we are just talking about time lines and extent.

The malls were in Trucky, South Lake Tahoe, Squaw Valley, Snow Bird, (UT), Steam Boat Springs, (CO) amoungst others. All real near ski resorts. (A ski buddy had an insatiable need to visit Internet Cafes.) One "mall" consistes of a ski equipment shop, a ski rental shop, a ski clothing shop, a ski waxing shop, and a coffee shop near Sugar Bowl. I like the owner, he has a lot of old ski gear and photos of skiers dating back to the 1920's. That is the place that got me thinking about this theme. ----- Of course this is just Calfornia and it never really gets cold here. Who needs real ski sweaters here? Aaron

SNIP>

Reply to
<agres

You do up in Truckee/Tahoe in the winter! I lived there for about 5 years in the late 70s. That's where my experience with ski sweaters comes from. ;)

sue

Reply to
suzee

sweaters.

You know, I recently made my daughter a sweater using size 3 needles and fingering yarn, which is what the pattern called for, and it's incredibly light. She absolutely loves it and wears it constantly, but I can't help but think that it can't be all that warm. Then again, I'm in Anaheim, CA, and it doesn't get "cold" here, but something a bit sturdier would be nice when the winds whip up. After reading your post I've decided to make the same pattern - it's a Debbie Bliss pattern with lots of cables - using a worsted yarn so she has a nice warm sweater for next winter.

Thanks for the inspiration, Aaron. Maybe now is the time to dig up that Alice Starmore _Fisherman Knits_ book and try that one I've been drooling over for years...

The Other Kim kimagreenfieldatyahoodotcom

Reply to
The Other Kim

Me, I like bobbles.

Higs, Kather> A bobble is either a mistake, or a decorative stitch that takes a

Reply to
Katherine

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