OT waaaay OT

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I have long wondered if there is a point at which a respected scientist becomes a common grave robber. Is it a matter of how old the grave is? If the robber in question has a PhD can they ravage a younger grave than someone with a Masters? Is it simply a matter of anybody working for an educational institution or research foundation has the right to dig up the dead wherever they find them? If the civilization to which the deceased belonged is extinct does that mean they no longer have rights? Does the family of the dead simply have to be far enough removed that they cannot bring a suit at law? Is the difference between research and theft somebody somewhere making a profit from the contents of the grave? How would one define profit for such purposes? What exactly is the difference in law between somebody waltzing in and digging up your mom, and somebody digging up your great-great-great-great- great-(etc)grandmother?

NightMist

Reply to
NightMist
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I've always felt that way, NM. Well, maybe not always but since I was 4 or

  1. On a Florida vacation we visited St. Augustine and I remember being taken to an Indian burial ground. I remember thinking it was disgraceful and irreverent and assorted other shocked thoughts. When we moved to the Swamp, we were told that the area around the ancient sycamore tree was the hamster cemetery. We are very respectful and let those furry creatures rest in peace. Polly

Reply to
Polly Esther

I've also felt that way, especially when I read in the paper where an ancient burial place has been uncovered and artifacts found, and put in a museum. Here in the SC, GA, NC, TN corners area we have a Cherokee group that checks on these things. No, I don't know how to get in touch with them but I know they exist. My son used to make necklaces to sale and he was visited by them and he showed them how he got his natural materials and they were satisfied. Yes, Great grandmother was Cherokee, Eastern Tribe, and I have pictures of her. In St Augustine I saw the graves at the Fountain of Youth. Barbara in SC

Reply to
Bobbie Sews More

My opinion is always, "Depends on what they are looking at these things FOR".

If they are looking at a place and 'find' remains, then it would be appropriate to find out why the remains are there.

If there is a good forensic reason to exhume remains, then that is also valid.

If the remains need to be moved, for any valid reason, then it should be done with respect.

However. As I also subscribe to the belief that our bodies are just overcoats we slough to free the soul, I can see no logical reason to object to widening our Knowledge through exploration of the past. And I think, by and large, I would be rather flattered by the attention if I thought my remains would be of use long centuries after I had finished with it.

Yes, I think I would rather be a lesson, than simply land-fill.

But, contrarily, there ARE limits. These are the Mores of the area. And we have strict Laws governing those... usually.

A thoughtful subject...

Nel

Reply to
Sartorresartus

It is an interesting topic, and there may be those of us with opinions who will not say anything at all, here.

In the early years of this decade, a planned community was started not too far from here. Much of it runs close by a local river that has headwaters up in our mountains and wind downs throught the valley and plains to the ocean. There was an Native American settlement and burial site found at one point, which stopped things while they decided what to do. I was apalled to find out later that they found additional sites and simply bulldozed over/destroyed everything without noticing to anyone.

On the other hand, the gun range up in the mountains, that my dad helped build, is placed on forestry land. About 20 years ago they found out that one of the areas they had developed was actually the fringe of a ceremonial and burial ground for the local Native American tribe. They stopped any other improvements, pulled everything for the range out and set everything back, area is returned to its former status. It cost them a lot of time and money to set things to right, but it was the right and respectful thing to do. The whole area is closed during ceremonial days and solstices in order to give the honor due to live side-by-side with all types of people.

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Ginger in CA

Reply to
Taria

It occurred to me that maybe archaeologists from the same culture as the people they were digging up might have more right to do it, as they probably have some common values.

Which is a fairytale, since almost all the Native Americans who weren't exterminated by the genocide are kept so far down at the bottom of the social heap that they don't have a prayer of getting a scientific education.

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Reply to
Roberta

I will not state my own personal opinion on the subject. The following observations/quotes are not my own, and do not reflect my opinion, so please do not read anything into them. Like others' posts, they are only extrapolated for further consideration of a very complex issue.

---------- Spock: "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "

To the question in general, is what Spock said true? Should it be? It's the basis for concepts in law like "eminent domain", derived from British Common Law.

"At the time the United States was created, it and the several states continued to use the British common law, including the principle of eminent domain."

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Nightmist queried:

mean they no longer have rights?

What if the group to which the deceased bel> almost all the Native Americans who

---------- While that was true at one time, it is no longer accurate.

To date, 17,000 Native Americans have been through the AISES program and are working in fields related to science and engineering.

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more current information:
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Reply to
Dr. Zachary Smith

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