OT - A pair of pants, a shirt ?

Found some info here:

looked at the entry in the Oxford English Dictionary, whichsuggests that the form pair of pants was standard right from itsearliest use. Indeed, words for nether garments all seem to have beencommonly plural throughout their history, often prefixed by pair of..: breeches, shorts, drawers, panties, tights, knickers (short forknickerbockers), and trousers. Pants is short for pantaloons, also plural, which in their very earliest incarnations were nearer stage tights; their name comes from a Venetian character in Italian commedia dell?arte who was the butt of the clown?s jokes and who always appeared as a foolish old man wearing pantaloons. Commentators referred to them when they first appeared as being a combination of breeches and stockings. Later the word was applied to fashionable tight-fitting trousers.

Trousers came into the language in the seventeenth century from the Gaelic trowse, a singular word for a slightly different garment rather more like breeches; a later version of it was trews, taken to be a plural because of the final s. Breeches has been plural throughout its recorded history, a long one (it dates from at least the year 1200).

According to several costume historians who have helped me with this reply, the answer to all this conventional plurality is very simple. Before the days of modern tailoring, such garments, whether underwear or outerwear, were indeed made in two parts, one for each leg. The pieces were put on each leg separately and then wrapped and tied or belted at the waist (just like cowboys? chaps). The plural usage persisted out of habit even after the garments had become physically one piece. However, a shirt was a single piece of cloth, so it was always singular.

It?s worth noting that the posher type of tailor, such as in London?s Savile Row, still often refers to a trouser and the singular pant and tight are not unknown in clothing store terminology in America?so the plural is not universal.

_______________________________________________________________ Posted at C-krits Crafting Forums -

Thank you Mirjam! Never tought of that connection, even if in Italian we do have the word pantalone or pantaloni for trouses...

AFAIK, Pantalone is not a saint, it's a character of the Venetian Commedia dell'Arte and a mask of the Carnival. He actually wears very shocking pantaloons LOL Pantaleimon was a Greek saint, protector of the ill people (he is usully represented with a box of medecines). Of course Venice had so many contacts with eastern mediterranean sea that names and words are mixed...

Here you have a picture of the mask:

a icon of the Saint:

Anna Maria

Is it possible that in the beginning leggings were indeed two loose pieces, one for each leg, and there was not a top part to connect them, thus plural was used to mention them, even after the two pant legs were connected. Just a thought

Els

That is so interesting, that in the past the pants were made as two separate parts and then joined together, so the plural, pants.

I was writing an email today and when I wrote 'shirt' and 'a pair of pants', it got me wondering, and as was mentioned above, most, if not all, pants and the other bottom coverings are plural, but it evidently is not totally universal.

Thanks for the replies - you can find out almost anything on RCTY ! !

Rusty

In the days of crinoline dresses, ladies knickers called pantaloons were made in two separate legs. Fastened at the waist with tapes.

This was to facilitate visits to the lavatory. I wonder of they were the first crotch less knickers. Shirley

In message , Rusty writes

LOL Glad I wasn't drinking anything that time.... but there you go, it is very possible. Certainly the "working" ladies of the streets would find them easier to use. ;o)

Gemini

Ah talking about womens underwear....LOL I have a lovely little booklet about Dutch womens underwear in the last 400 years or so. Up to very recent women did not have underpants at all. When you were walking along a road, you just would drape your long layers of underskirts and skirs all around you squat down and do what ever you needed to do. The thought of that makes me unconfortable, but apparently that is how it was done. The book is full of little gems.....??? like that

Els

Ummm, I know you ment a different meaning of the word "gem", but really.... did you have to use my other nick while referring to underpants, or lack thereof? ROTFLMAO Just teasing, Els! ;o)

*hugs* GemINI hehehe

If you really want to have fun , have a look at the Roget`s Thesaurus , mine is from Penguin books , 1966..... Item 228 Dressing , item Trousers , patns, long p. , peg p. , trews, breeks, pantaloons, pantalettes, bloomers, bag-trouseres, salwar, slacks , bags, chaparejos, chaps, dungress, overalls, denims, jeans, levis, sweat-pants, drawers, shorts, half -pants.

Did you know that the Victorians at a time called underpants = Unmentionables !!!

Skirt is from a shirt , that was originally a short Tunic , and it sunk downwards. mirjam

Well there are two shining gems then......LOL

Els

Jean thank you for that very full explanation - now I can see why "pants" are usually referred to as a pair. When you mention the singular "pant" I recalled that one sees advertised "pant suits" and "trouser suits" as in slacks and jacket God Bless gwen

LOL Funny you should say that (about the two shining gems), Els. When I had my chat channel a few years ago, and it was time for me to say goodnight, my signoff message said "Gemini is the twin light in your eyes" and a lot of my friends used to say that I was definitely the shining light for them. :o)

Gemini