Someone at WetCanvas posted pics of a really cool piece of beadwork that they just found at a thrift store. Maybe someone from here can shed some light on it?
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:21:42 -0400, Margie wrote (in message ):
The beads are Czech seeds and charlottes (could be French Charlottes from all the colors in the print - the maroons and pinks, especially). The design appears to be European because of the mixed Chinese and Japanese motifs, and is in the style called "Oriental Revival." Without looking at the piece, I can't be any more precise on the dates, because Oriental Revival spans from the Victorian era to the present, with varying levels of popularity. The only bead that confuse me are the A/B square seeds, used in the window area of the picture. They're not Miyuki cubes, but they could be Indian.
If I had to guess, without seeing the piece in person, I'd say it's mid-late
20th century. If the threads are all natural materials, I'd lean toward earlier rather than later. Polyester, of course, would mean the piece is relatively new. Probably the best way to check would be to match the paint swatch numbers with modern needlepoint yarns and embroidery floss. Many of the major companies are still in business, and a letter to them would likely yield a date range for the availability of those particular threads.It's also entirely possible that it's modern, because it's so clean. There doesn't seem to be any dust at all on the piece, and the painted surface behind the beads is still vivid. I've seen those kinds of canvases in Germany in regular department stores. Perhaps the artist died and the relatives shipped everything off to the thrift store, not realizing the treasure they were throwing away.
One more clue is in the style of writing on the pencilled in numbers. The numbers are obviously done by the artist, because they are on the brown paper and show signs of being written while laying on the canvas. The closed numeral four, the serif on the numeral seven and the slight shakiness of the writing leads me to believe that this was an elderly person who made this.
I have no clue as to value, except to say that it's worth a hell of a lot more than the $7.99 the person paid for it, even if you cut it apart for the beads (which would be a crime, IMO). Considering the size, if provenance could be established, and comparing it to non beaded needlepoint items, I'd guess it could sell for over a thousand in the right venue. (Ebay is not the right venue)
Tink, I'm not a member of WC, but if you want to pass this information along, feel free.
Kathy N-V, who has learned tons about dating beads since she started her international beadwork project.
Oh Kathy!!!!!!!!! I was hoping you'd see this post and maybe have some clues! With your current state of owie-ness, I didn't dare hope you would. LOL!
Thank you, and I will pass on the info!
Tink Rent-A-Tink Info via snipped-for-privacy@blackswampglassworks.com Latest Work is here:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:19:00 -0400, Tinkster wrote (in message ):
I just looked at the rest of the replies, and I think that the guesses that it was made in Occupied Japan are way off. The Japanese seed bead industry didn't take off until well after WWII, and during the occupied period, no "cottage industry" would have had the money available for all those imported beads. Japanese seeds (those look like 13/0s to me, judging by the charlottes) have never had those shades of maroon and pink, while the French have been producing them for a long, long time.
The numbers on the canvas aren't in Kanji - they're regular Arabic numerals. A Japanese person from that period, especially a woman selling beadwork as a cottage industry would have never had knowledge of our way of writing numbers. The mixed motifs make it unlikely it's Japanese as well - why would someone put enemy symbolism alongside their own? (China and Japan were opponents during WWII and the preceding period)
From what I remember, most of those canvases were made in Belgium. That ties in rather neatly with the fact that those are French and Czech beads. None of the beads in the samples fit the style of Japanese beads, thought the slightly irregular donut shaped yellow opaque beads are almost certainly Czech.
The French and Czech bead businesses didn't operate during Nazi occupation, so a Japanese cottage artisan would have had to use vintage, imported seed beads. Not very likely for an item that would be sold to a GI looking for a gift for his girlfriend.
Kathy N-V
I agree with most everything you have said Kathy except for the Charlottes. I don't see any of them in the piece. The AB's are a Czech 2-cut. The orange beads just by it are a size 9 3-cut. So, relating all the sizes, that would make the seeds a size 10. I think this piece was made in the 70's. Which would also account for the pink beads used in the background. There were plenty of pink size 10's available during that time period. Note how they are a dull fleshy pink, similar to what you would see in some Native American beadwork from that time period. I believe the maroon we are seeing is actually a red, just distorted by the image and our monitors. I think this piece may have come from a European kit.
Beki
Someone at WetCanvas posted pics of a really cool piece of beadwork that they just found at a thrift store. Maybe someone from here can shed some light on it?
Cheryl last semester of lawschool! yipee! DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:27:37 -0400, DreamBeadr wrote (in message ):
I bow to your greater wisdom, Beki. I based the 13/0 comment on what the original poster said , that the beads were "unbelievably tiny." The colors looked like some French beads I bought recently,and I never see true maroon in Japanese seed beads.
I can't remember what beads were available during the '70's (I was 7 in
1970!), but looking for closely at the crudely done face on the woman, I can believe it.Have you ever seen anything like that in kit form? I wonder what such a kit would cost, including the beads? From the people I see buying needleworking materials in Germany (I have an aunt who makes amazing tapestries and petit point copies of Old Masters paintings), You buy your canvas according to the painted design you like. The numbers on the side are the thread/yarn colors, and you go to a yarn store to get threads. After that, it would be a trip to a bead store to order the seed beads you wanted. (I see very few over the counter beads while in Germany. You tell them what you want, and get it a day or two later)
I'd imagine that a beaded needlepoint piece that size would be a hard sell - "Make this lovely picture in only 6 years! (taking time out for meals, of course!)"
But gee thanks, Beki! I feel thrilled that I got so much of it right, I've only had three years with beads, and I know that you the details of such a thing in your sleep.
Kathy N-V
P.S.: How's the arm? Are you feeling better?
well - if someone wants to take a stab at this technique -- there is a kit on ebay
if it is your sort of "thing" LOL ebay item ID is
2391964233 snurl below -I enlarged the picture and the AB beads are very irregular and a lot of them are broken. To me they look as if they are small bugle beads. They are the sort I would throw away for their unevenness and I would be feared of them cutting the thread and canvas. The canvas shows in between the broken ones. the orange beads are all varying in size.
It seems such a shame that someone put all those hours work and had to use inferior beads. JMHO. Shirley
In article , DreamBeadr writes
I guess after all these years of hearing people refer to beads as "really small" I have become jaded to that comment. Really small is relative....lol.
And I am afraid we won't either. The Japanese have never been good at shades of red. And it doesn't appear they are trying to correct that problem either.
I was 8! =o) Just by nature and to help my customers, I have studied seed beads, as well as beads in general, pretty well.
I have only personally seen one other, similar item, in a kit. It was a scenery of trees with an owl. (do you remember the owl toilet seat covers from the 70's...yuck! LOL) I have seen an old catalog of sorts, dated in the early 70's with about 10 pages of "bead embroidery" kits. They ranged in size from about 12x12 to lifesize. The company that manufactured them was in Europe but had long since gone out of business when I saw the catalog. =o(
Nowadays? Hundreds I am sure. I only remember one price of $29.95 on one of the larger size pieces from the catalog. Can you imagine?!?
Oh how wonderous! Maybe in my next life I will do that instead of beads.
And a super huge kudo to you Kathy for taking the time to educate yourself so thoroughly about your art.
While I enjoy the aspect of my job that allows me to help people with their questions, I do have a bit of a hidden peeve about folks who just jump right into selling beadwork without first learning what the heck they are selling. ;o\ The fact that you create for the sake of creation, and still have taken the time to educate yourself so well, warms my heart.
Beki
Yes, we are very lucky to be beading in this time period. The evolution of seedbead quality has improved dramatically in the last 20 years.
I remember the first time I saw a Japanese seedbead...I just marveled at the shape. Then when I saw a Delica for the first time I was totally blown away. The Japanese have worked wonders with seedbeads.
Beki
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:25:48 -0400, DreamBeadr wrote (in message ):
I am privileged enough to have one of her pieces. I was all of 16 years old, and admired it while she was about half done. About a year later, I got a package from Tante Lia.
I was 17, in high school and broke, yet somehow I scraped up the money to have it archivally framed. It's moved all over with me, from my dorm room, wheere it was next to the giant poster of Bruce Springsteen's butt, to my current living room. I consider it a treasure.
Actually, knowing what I'm doing makes my beading a lot more enjoyable. It's so much more meaningful to me, knowing that I participate in an art that has been an important part of every human culture since prehistoric times. I'm a tecno-geek as well, so I want to know how everything is made, and as much obscure information as I can find. :-)
I get frustrated when I hear the "I got some beads this weekend, and now I'm lauching my new career. Can you tell me how to make a million dollars by beading things at home?"
I can only imagine how often you've heard it. Do you have a macro to answer the emails? :-)
I get much more out of the beading and creating than I could ever get by selling. I know me, money would get between me and the love of my art. And, I get to give things away that make people happy. It's very freeing.
Kathy N-V
I KNOW. And then they get all pushed out of shape when I grit my teeth during my non-answer, like I'm such a stingy asshole!
They're so lucky I don't carry a piece. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
Oh my gosh, that drives *me* crazy, and I'm by no means a professional beader! And the lampwork equivelant; "I just set up a Hot Head in my kitchen two weeks ago, and now I am selling my "fine glass art" on the internet!"
Granted, sometimes you just *know* when you've found your calling... but at least learn how to do it well before declaring yourself a professional!
-Kalera
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