Glass Usage - Scrap Factor, dollars per piece

I have two questions:

  1. When bidding on stained glass projects, what is the usual scrap factor artisans use when considering the amount of glass to purchase/use? Would 15%-20% be excessive?

  1. When bidding on stained glass project, what is a reasonable dollar figure per piece of glass cut? Is .50 a reasonable figure?

Reply to
Locoweed
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I'm trying not to be smug, but these are silly questions. If you're bidding, (this would imply a big job) and don't know how to estimate it, you probably have no right to be doing the job in the first place. As to your estimate questions, you need to know how fast you work, and how much you want to make per hour. Material costs are not even a consideration with me because the labor is probably 90% of the job. When you have that all figured out, then you need to know your overhead, and how much profit you can make. I said CAN. Most SG artisans undercharge because they have no idea how to value their work, and cheat themselves bigtime. All that said..... I'm probably at the top of the SG food chain, and get about $250/sf. Garage competitors of mine may charge as little as $50/sf. Why do I get any work? Because my customers aren't as concerned with price, as much as my experience and the perceived value of the "show" I give them.

Reply to
glassman

While I generally agree with what Mr. Sinrod says in another post, here are some more specific answers.

The amount of scrap generated is dependent on:

1.) the type and texture of the glass. Matching texture and color grain generates a lot more scrap than using uni-texture glass like glue chip. 2.) the size and shape of the pieces. Large, curvy pieces generate more scrap than smaller ones, if you aren't able to use the fall-off from the bigger ones. Pieces with tight inside curves generally have lots of waste. 3.) panels with lots of straight lines (a la "prairie" style) have less waste. 4.) and, most importantly, your cutting skills. How much are you going to break accidentally?

Calculation of prices can be done with a spreadsheet that was done by an occasional poster to this group. Google for "Bart Veerman" and "glascost". Maybe you can find the spread sheet. It is free to use. If you can't find it, or if he doesn't reply to this thread, maybe someone can send it to you.

I'm not totally certain that "by-the-square-foot" is the right way to price something. In some cases, $50/ft. would be exorbitant, and in other cases, $250/foot would be way underpriced. Think of a 3 piece suncatcher vs. a 26" Tiffany reproduction lampshade and you will see what I mean.

Other considerations in pricing are

What will the market bear? What is YOUR reputation? What is the general cost of living in the area? How well funded is the customer? And, how badly do you need the work?

If this is a big project....put it in writing and get a deposit.

Amen.

Reply to
Moonraker

I quit chraging by the square foot a long time ago and now charge by the hour. After building hundreds and hundreds of panels, I know how long something will take me. I get between $65 and $250 per hour.

Do this...build a 12" x 12" panel with 20 pieces. Use different types of glass. Have curves and straight line cuts. Keep an accurate record of the material you had to buy. Keep a time log. When your done, you'll knoe exactly how long it took you and now you can figure what hourly rate you need. You'll also know what you spent on materials.

I also charge by just the job. If it's really cool and I really want to do it, I determine what I think the artistic value is and quote that price.

Bottom line is that you should be happy doing the work. I turn down work all the time because I don't want to do it, period.

Reply to
neoglassic

Funny...your very next sentence refers to square footage. Duh.

So, a builder quality simple design 4'-0" square bath window with 50-60 design pieces would run about $600 according to your formula? That's less than half of the going price.

Methinks you are full of shit.

Reply to
Moonraker

I know I'm a whole lot happier at $250/hour than I am at $65/hour.

Reply to
Moonraker

Really? Wonder why most of the retailers around here sell glass by the pound, then?

I don't believe I ever said anything about HOW I estimate material costs. If you will check back, YOU were the one who started blathering about your "fairly complex formula". Even the basement bandits in my part of the country would laugh at your pricing.

Right. Not caring about the "going price" is just more fodder for your amazing ego. We need to have the porta-potty people stop by once a week to pump you out so you will stop spewing all over Usenet.

Umhuh. And Al Gore invented the internet. After you told him how.

Cotton candy sells at the carnival, too. Doesn't mean that it has any substance or nutritional value.

Reply to
Moonraker

Ya think? Me too but alot depends on how hungry I am at the time and what the job is.

Reply to
neoglassic

Why do you insist on threatening amd insulting all of us SG artist tryings to compete and make a living? You constantly tell us how what we do and how we do it are wrong. You tell us SG is dead, kilnwork is the thing to do, and yet you're now training others to be basement bandits taking the food out of our mouths? Maybe that's why you're always attacked? Do you even realize how you constantly set yourself up to be the bad guy here?

Reply to
glassman

Geeze, such a hostile response for someone who is trying to learn. Didn't anyone tell you in school that there is no such thing as a stupid (silly question in your words)?

Glassman, if B.S. were water, you'd definitely drown. Even a novice such as me and after seeing your web site, knows your worth isn't worth the $250 you claim. Pompous jerk!

glassman wrote:

Reply to
Locoweed

With a b.s. business grade as well as a overvalued handcraftsmann I want to point out way "garage-bandits" is not taking over this business:

  1. Every price is based on the value of the work. - for handkraftsmann this meen keep record of your work. One good photo can sell better than any sale argument in this field. If you are teaching others - tell about it. It gives respect. If you have writen articals, books, or have a simple web page. Talk about it. All this adds "invisible" value to the work that you will get paid for.

  1. Most buyers is looking for something special. Be sure to know how your own style is different from most of the rest, iven when you are "only" doing work which in basic is working with guiedline from buyers. This can be the simple tings about cuting and breaking glass or how you handle the material.

=> This is the basic - only you can put value in to your work - show it and be proud of it.

P.s. every time you sell your buyer is at the same time member of the communty that owns your work. That is the communty that will put the extra value in to your work - Untill you have that communty you will have to play at the low end. Only by keeping trak of what you are doing and make sure that oter know about it you can move to the other end.

Sorry about my english. Bragi

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Reply to
bragijoh

Damn! does this mean I have to cut my prices by 70% ? Up until now, I was pretty happy with my $160/hour labor rate. Maybe my life would be more satisfying if I were to make less money and pay some nitwit for advice on how to be a basement bandit and buy materials wholesale? Ya think?

Reply to
Moonraker

Snivelling? Nah. It's ridicule. Coupled with just a bit of pity for the poor, pathetic wannabe who gets bamboozled by your bullshit. But mostly, it's just plain old ridicule and contempt of you.

Reply to
Moonraker

They sure do. Did that container load of glass make it to Scandanavia yet?

Molded in your image? Bwahahahaah!

Reply to
Moonraker

Luckily for me I am not threatened by anyone, I do adapt, am a former stockbroker & financial planner, and know what I'm doing. That doesn't mean that I can't bitch & complain about various states of my industry. You totally avoided my post and question for you Dennis. It's about you, not me. Here it is again:

"Why do you insist on threatening amd insulting all of us SG artists tryings to compete and make a living? You constantly tell us how what we do and how we do it are wrong. You tell us SG is dead, kilnwork is the thing to do, and yet you're now training others to be basement bandits taking the food out of our mouths? Maybe that's why you're always attacked? Do you even realize how you constantly set yourself up to be the bad guy here?"

Reply to
glassman

Sorry if I disapppointed you, but those that resort to personal attacks are small men and don't usually get an answer from me. I thought my response to the OP was very informative, and real world. Your opinion of the value of my meager work only proves what I was trying to say. It's all about pricing, and perceived value. You or I wouldn't pay it, but where I live thank god there are plenty that do. Your accusation of it being a lie, proves your self imposed novice label. After doing this for 25 years why would I lie? I don't know where you live & work, but my properties real estate taxes are close to $20,000 a year alone. Should I give my work away for $25/sqft if I can get 10 times that? Art doesn't sell itself, it's marketing and salesmanship that sells art.

Reply to
glassman

Glassman:

Didn't say anything about people in your neck of the woods wouldn't pay $250/sq. ft. for glass. I just eluded to the fact I didn't think they would pay that kind of money for yours.

It seems you take great pride slamming people for asking questions, their work and whether they do their stained glass projects in the basement, garage or wherever. My question about how one handles scrap factor is a prime example. I asked an honest question on how others handle this situation and you SLAM the living crap out of me by saying it's a silly question. Unless one asks, how does one know? You never considered this aspect and took off on some tangent telling everyone and his mother how great your are and eluded to people such as me to stay out of the business. This is not to mention how much you charge work and pay in taxes. You're still a pompous jerk and alway will be as long as you continue to deal with people in the rude manner you have here.

No, I don't suggest you give your work away for $25/sqft. I would never suggest this. Instead, I suggest you pay clients $25/sqft to take your work off your hands and destroy it.

Treat others with respect and you'll eventually get some from them.

Reply to
Locoweed

So, the next logical question is what kind of money will people pay for YOUR work?

BTW, I think the word you were looking for is "alluded"?

I read Glassman's reply to you. I didn't take it as a slam, more a cautionary statement. If you have to ask questions like what you did and at the same time say you are "bidding" on a project, those of us who have been where you are ( you are a relative newbie to the business of stained glass, right?) probably were interested in not seeing you get in over your head. Given that this business is pretty geographical, what you do in TX doesn't affect me in GA or Glassman in NY or Javahut in MI...other than giving the SG industry an overall black eye.

By doing it yourself. The school of hard knocks.

You probably haven't SEEN rude, yet. But keep trying, I'm certain you can say the magic words.

Maybe a little practicing what you preach would be good for you, too.

I'm fairly certain that nobody on this board will find it necessary to slit their wrists if they don't have your respect.

Reply to
Moonraker

Uhhhh, Dennis? What would you know about respect from anybody in the SG business? Other than your mythical wannabe minions stumbling around in basements all over North America.

Bwahahahaha!

Reply to
Moonraker

Oh now I get it... I hurt your feelings with that terrible "slam the living crap out of you" remark, saying that it was a silly question? That's a slam? Saying your question was silly? Can't imagine how you'd feel if I said that it was a dumb, stupid, worthless, asinine question. I don't ever insult people here or anywhere that way. Maybe you have me mixed up with someone else? All I said was that it was silly, and then I gently went on to explain in great detail about estimating a big job. Go back a reread my informative response with a different perspective. It would be like asking how to estimate waste removal on building a skyscraper I'm bidding on, when I have no idea how to actually build anything. The question would be silly, and no one but you would take offense at it being characterized thusly.

Reply to
glassman

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