Stirring the pot with another discussion-- <VBG>

Our newest and largest show asks the question 'professional' or 'amateur' on the entry form. However, there are not separate categories; and, anyway, I feel the criteria are not quite right. I have to write 'professional' because I have taught and written articles on P&Q (and now the book - if they ever get it produced), but I don't feel like I work at quilting? This is the only show that asks the question; and, if they ask it, why do they not do anything about it? I have this 'fear' that the 'pro' or 'am' would be used in the judging; like, a pro should make better quilts than an amateur, and, therefore be judged more harshly - exactly as you say Kathy. Just because I have a logical mind and have been a teacher and so can explain well enough to write articles etc doesn't mean that I can make better quilts - and I certainly don't. It's all very odd. I enter shows because I like doing so - taking part in something with others of like mind. I have only rarely won anything, and that is a thrill, but so is seeing a quilt just hanging there among the others. (Virtually all our quilt shows are 'open' - not juried). . In message , Kathy Applebaum writes

This has just been the opinion of some of the members, mind you - I don't have an opinion either way yet.

Some feel that it is more difficult to wrestle a quilt through a regular machine than it is to use a long arm to quilt it, therefore more challenging.

Some just think it's apples and oranges - the same way that hand quilting is different from machine quilting.

As more and more non-professionals get and use long arms maybe this is going to be addressed more.

I don't know! what do you think? Is it harder to quilt a quilt with your sewing machine? Or is it just "different".

Cindy

That is something that has already been done at our show. As well as separating out the "Professionally quilted" quilts. Our area has a lot of long armers, and some home machine quilters who do quilting for money. A lot. There are also a number of people who have long arm machines (ranging from the HQ16/ Tin Lizzie 18 type on frames up to Gammills) who do not do quilting for money.

Some of the problems with people not wanting to enter our guild show arise because we do have a lot of very good quilters. And some who do make lots of money with their quilting-- in various ways. For example, Sharon Schamber, Cristi Fincher (Sharon's daughter) and Gina Perkes all belong to the guild. All won major prizes at Paducah. (Just checked, neither Sharon nor Cristi entered this year's local show, they have in the past.) We have/have had several different quilt book authors in the group. And one of the awards presented at the show is The Laurene Sinema Award, Laurene opened the first quilt shop in Phoenix and wrote several books, many patterns and so on. Wonderful woman who was a stickler for workmanship.

Lots of people who are "just plain, ordinary quilters" at various levels don't feel that they can compete against some of these other quilters. I don't feel that they should either. Heck, I don't want to compete against them!!

Pati, > We've had some discussion at our Guild about changing the Machine Quilting

Enter. do. Remember the basic "why" of any guild show. It is, or should be, to display the works of members of the guild. To allow others to see what you are doing and to get some "ego-boo" as my DH says. Everyone starts somewhere. And I am a firm believer in making use of your guild membership in every way possible. That includes entering your local guild show. I do not (usually) enter anything to win, I enter to let people enjoy what I have done. If you look at my pics, the little clown was entered just because he was fun. He is not an award winner in any way, shape or form. Was made in a day, and has lots of technical "issues". But he makes people smile. The VW quilt was also entered to make people smile. Never expected to win anything with it. (the major "problem" with it, according to the judges, is that it "needs more quilting". maybe so, but it is meant to be a wall hanging, and is fine for that. sometime I may do more background quilting on it, but may not too.) even though I entered that in the show in 2003, people still remember it. I consider that a success.

If your show hires judges, you are paying for those judges with your dues. You are entitled to get the comments from those judges just as much as anyone else. The judges may tell you what you already know, as far as how to improve your quilts, but they may also surprise you with what they consider positives. At our show the inevitable comment for most of the quilts, (according to people who are present for the judging, either clerking or holding up the quilts, etc.) is about the bindings. Usually they need to be "fuller" or the miters are not sewn down/ square etc. Imagine my surprise when most of my comment sheets came back from the first show I entered with "good binding" on them. Wonderful feeling. (My most common comment- the afore mentioned "needs more quilting". sigh. Why? there are times when I feel that quilts have way too much quilting. Difference in tastes. which is a "good thing". )

Enter shows for the fun, for the comments and to show off. It is fun.

Pati, > I think that a professional anything should be someone who makes a living at

We do that with one of the groups I belong to. Or did. we are looking for a place to hold a show since we "lost" our previous venue. The problem we had there was getting enough entries to hold a show. sigh.

part of it is mindset.

Pati, in Phx

snipped-for-privacy@prodigy.net wrote:

Personally, I would think that the criteria for a "Professional Quilter" would be the same for an artist - if you're commissioned or getting paid, you're a pro.

I think in the area of quilting, it's a bit biased ... perhaps other quilters don't want to compete with someone who does it for their living? I mean, I would think that someone who spends their workday in another sort of job vs someone who spends their workday quilting wouldn't want to compete with someone who obviously would have more experience ...

Just my 2 cents ... :)

Having quilted both ways, I don't think they're all that different. The regular machine *is* more tiring for large quilts, no doubt about it. But straight line work (stitch-in-the-ditch, outlining, etc) is *way* easier on a regular machine.

IM(NS)HO, you really can't (or shouldn't be able to, anyway) tell if a quilt was quilted on a regular machine or a longarm. So why should they be judged differently? To me, it's like saying that quilts that were hand pieced, sewn on an electric machine, and sewn on a treadle should all be judged differently. If the workmanship is good, you shouldn't be able to tell at the end. (Or, it should be very, very difficult).

I agree with this.

But, I think the division of long arm quilted v. home machine quilted is one way to, ahem, give credit to the long arm quilter who isn't always recognized on entry forms and she/he should be. It might also be a way to divide stitch regulated (and not all long arms are) from non-stitch regulated (and more home machines are) or perhaps computerized long arms where you set things up and it quilts away from something that a person guides. I think the larger issue is that groups/guilds/shows/fairs don't always think about what exactly they are trying to separate and end up with a division that doesn't always give them the end result they want.

marcella

And sadly this happens in FAR too many endeavors. I still bang my head against the walls with vendors who have this mentality -- the "we must do something, this is something, therefore we must do it" thinking, instead of the "what do we really want to have happen, and what will get us there" thinking. *sigh*

Oh what a nice memory. Laurene was my first quilt teacher. She was such a wonderful person....she made everyone feel so special. I took many classes from her shop!

I said that I would post my "reply" to these questions so here goes.

I love to sew. I know a lot about various techniques, products and so on. And I am very good at teaching much of this. (Note: it has taken me many years to be able to say, publicly, that I am good at anything, much less very good.) However I am not and may never be one of those who just win awards all over the place. Nor do I necessarily want to be. I consider myself a professional teacher--I have the educational background in that area, and in my area(s) of specialization. I can and do teach regardless of being paid for it. It is enjoyable to be paid to teach, but at the moment I do not make money from it. Much more goes out in supplies/samples than is returned in class fees. With some luck, work and such that may eventually turn around (I hope!!).

Professional quilt designer--- working on that one. Again, not sure I will ever be a ground breaking, outrageously cutting edge designer, but I can put together interesting patterns and write them so that others can be creative with them. Maybe in a few years I will start making a profit on that venture, but doubt I can ever make a living with it. Or even contribute a significant portion of the household income with it. But that is not why I want to do it. I think that I have *a* "better" way of doing some things and want to help others enjoy fabric fun with it.

As far as being a "Professional" quilter or quilt maker-- nope, not in the cards. I doubt I could ever make money making and selling either tops or finished quilts. Partially because while I am, and can be, good, I don't think I am "that good". and partially because I don't think that anyone could/would pay what my time is worth. (that is one reason I quit working as an alterations tailor/seamster. It isn't worth working for what I was being paid. Not sure it would be worth it even if I was paid a significant percentage of what was being taken in for the work I was doing. And forget doing it on my own. I know that there is no way I want to do that again. Nope, not trying to explain to someone in person that there is no way I can take a size 10 dress and make it into a size

I sew my samples with mistakes and all, much as anyone else might. If it isn't perfect, and it would take way too much effort to make it perfect-- well that is the way it's going to be and the galloping horse test is good enough for me. That isn't to say I am sloppy when I do them, but just that I am not going to stress over what is supposed to be a stress reducing exercise. I do the very best I can at the moment. And if it really is terrible, it can hit the trash or be adapted into something else. The homeless shelter doesn't mind if points are cut off or don't match.

So, am I pro?? I certa> What is a "professional" Quilter?? or maybe that should be "Who". >

I started there when it was a little barn on.....Thomas about 24th streetin the late 70's. Then it moved to Osborne under the trees. Now it's on one of the number streets...definitely not the same.

I'm printing that off, Kathy. Don't worry, I'll take full credit for your thoughts.

Cindy

I remember the barn, on Thomas. And the move to Osborne. It is now on

Pati, in Phx

KJ wrote:

Gee, wouldn't it be interesting to know if our paths ever crossed there? I was a regular customer there from the late 70's through 1993. With a couple stop ins after that.

Hmm.......... I started quilting at The Apple in a class with Janet Carruth (sp??) in the later '80s. Then started up again in about 1999 or so. Had to figure out someway to not get stuck at the store. (House of Fabrics/Jo-Ann's on Indian School) I have a feeling that you were pretty much gone by the time I started hanging out there. : (

Pati, in Phx

KJ wrote:

I remember Janet! But, you're right...we probably didn't bump into each other back then.

Pati,

I like your questions. I was in a quilt show recently and listened to the members and viewers about how the show was judged. In my belief, Long Armers should compete against each other. It is like racing a stock car against a PT Cruiser. No contest. A lot of the quilters did not show because they think they cannot compete against the pros and long armers. The average quilter is not being encouraged when they are put in a class with professionals.

Now, I also feel hand quilters should not compete against any machine quilters. Not the same technique so how can they compete?

Views get very confused on the points quilts are judge. I think it is totally bogus when a guild or whoever uses just anyone to judge a show. And yes, I know this happens, it is the reason I quit showing at one show in particular. I also am shocked how many quilt show have the quilters name showing during judging. Not cool.

Now, the quilters who get ribbons for their quilts and do not give the long armer who quilted it any credit. Totally bogus. You should not get a ribbon for something you did not do. If you didn't quilt it, don't show it as yours. Give the artist who quilted it the credit.

What is wrong with just having a show with Viewers Choice in every category and maybe a ribbon for the next runner up?

JMO, don't throw any irons at me, please,

Marsha