Moving Powermatic 90 lathe

I picked up a Powermatic lathe at a school sale and am planning on putting it in my basement. I have to move it 25 feet across a tile floor, half way down a stairs to a landing, and then half way down another stairs into the basement. My plan is to move the base and motor unit down first on an appliance dolly, and then move the bed on the same dolly. There is only room for one person on the front and back of the dolly at a time. I thought about tying a rope to the dolly and having a few people on the rope help to ease it down the stairs……..Or I could just leave it in the garage. Any words from the wise? It was all 4 of us could do to lift it out of the pickup and into the garage. I have plans to someday build a new garage/workshop someday. Scott

Reply to
vmtw
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Given all the dust that will be created when turning you might want to leave it in the garage and avoid all the hassle.

Reply to
Lrens3

My 46-204 Delta is pretty much the same, so you might want to follow the tactic I used. The lathe bed and headstock arrived bolted to a piece of 3/4 ply, to which I attached an eye bolt, sliding it down stairs with a neighbor below to guide, me up top to belay the rope. I considered it too off balance to try to slap to a dolly. We then lifted the ply at the corners, pushing 2" lumber under so we could get fingers under the (sanded!) edges and dead lift onto the stand. Seems we used a piece of carpet to ease the pressure over the wooden stairs.

Reply to
George

Well, the answer is obvious to me! You sell the damn house, go buy a house with a shop and have the movers set your lathe where you want it in the new shop. You gotta have your priorities!

Lewis

Reply to
Lewis Dodd

I'd find the exact spot that it is going to be in the basement, then mark that spot on the floor upstairs. Set the base on that spot (upstairs) then gather as many of your friends as possible, lift the bed as high as possible and drop the bed onto the base. If all goes right, it should hit the base exactly, drop right through the floor, onto the basement floor below, saving you all that lifting and struggling down the stairs and across the tiles. Then all you have is the comparatively simple task of patching the lathe-sized hole in the floor! All things considered, with the help of all your friends, the patch job should go much easier and faster than moving the lathe.

Let me know how that works, and I might try it myself.

: )

-- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. <

September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

Reply to
Chuck

Before you get started I have 3 guys who can help you............."HEY MOE, LARRY, CURLY GET OVER HERE YOU KNUCKLEHEADS"

Reply to
myxpykalix

My advice would be to just set it up in the garage just as a measure of safety both for the lathe and the people involved in moving it.

Reply to
Steven Raphael

You have been watching too much This Old House! My wife closes her eyes every time she sees the guy knock over the paint onto the rug.

I think that I will leave it in the garage for the time being. I guess that if I average the summer heat and the winter cold it should be a rather pleasant place to work!

Reply to
vmtw

You could drape some plastic around your work area in the garage, this fall and winter, so you have a sort of plastic partitioned room. A small heater will make it a lot more bearable.

-- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. <

September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

Reply to
Chuck

Averaging the summer heat and winter cold to obtain a pleasant average reminds me of the story of the man who had one foot on ice and the other in hot water. "On average" it was about right!

Reply to
Jgklr2732

Hi Scott, I'm glad that someone like you "picked up" a school lathe to use and enjoy, not just resell for profit, It does, however, bring out the COC in me. I hope that I'm wrong and the school is replacing old machines with better ones in a vigorous manual training program. More likely another school board has reneged on its obligation to educate hands as well as brains. I recognize the liability of shop courses and the huge changes in education necessary for the computer age. Regardless, the 'know-how' of DIY has become obligatory for most of us but we educate too many DIY 'know-naughts'.

Knowing how to put a dot before a com is wonderful, but not much good when the furnace stops on a cold night or the plumbing backs up on a holiday. IMHO, we need a more manually savvy citizenry and worthy educated workmen, who know that the difference between a hawk and a handsaw is not about birds and who can repair broken things in addition to waiting for replacement parts to arrive next month. Anyway, thanks to high school shop I can repair my own soapbox. ;)

Sorry for another COC rant, it's not meant to be a troll. I, for one, would be interested in why the lathe was sold and I hope it was replaced. Use it safely in good health, Scott. Have fun and enjoy many hours of happy turning, Arch

Fortiter,

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Reply to
Arch

It's a _huge_ liability problem, no doubt. The alternative, often discussed, to machines with instant maiming characteristics is to use hand tools. That is also a huge problem, because hand tools rely more on individual care, expertise and tuning than a machine which is really one big jig. If you could actually fail someone you might get them to exercise a bit of care, but that's pretty near impossible. If you could kick them out, you'd be able to reduce the class below critical mass of miscreants and have some fun.

In a conventional classroom, critical mass can usually be handled by assigned seating to isolate the worst offenders. The nature of Industrial Arts classes is such that they need to move from machine to machine or tool cabinet to bench and (hopefully) return. This means there's an opportunity to play grabass on the way, initiating the dodge, the drop of an expensive or properly tuned/sharpened tool, and worse. There are some hours where you cannot afford, from a safety standpoint, to put your head down and instruct one student or group without risking trouble and or injury. Then there's pilferage, sharp objects which might make their way into the latest conflict elsewhere in the school, closed doors to the finishing room and solvent fumes, and the adamant refusal to provide even a student aide in each hour.

The only thing that balances this are those hours where there is both interest in outcome and respect for the machines and others. I used to declare open shops after school hours periodically, to encourage those who really wanted to work. In an open shop period - actually about 2 1/2 periods, because the regular "hours" came to perhaps 45 minutes of work time - students were there at my discretion, and were shown the door if they could not observe the rules. Knowing this, even those who would goof off to impress others in a regular class got meaningful work accomplished. They also didn't leave ( or return if they did ) until the place was returned to order. Those kinds of days were a pleasure, grudgingly granted by the school board, and even more grudgingly by the other teachers who worried that they might be expected to stay more than the contract-mandated 5 minutes after the final bell.

BTW, don't blame the school board for _all_ the problems. Parents aren't interested in supporting programs which are not up-to-date, like manual arts. Somewhere along the line they got it in their minds that all kids are equal, and "tracking" into manual arts programs was discriminatory, and in the case of "home economics," degrading.

CYC

Reply to
George

It was in a Jr. High, and hadnt been used in a while. The shop teacher helped me load it along with two radial arm saws into my truck. He said that they do still teach some woodworking in the High School but not in the Jr. High. As far as I know, there isnt anyplace including the local community college that teaches any woodworking classes within 70 miles of me. There is a turning club that meets around 80 miles from me. I hate to give up my Saturdays to go meet with them, but may on occasion now that I have a lathe. I wish I had taken wood shop in High School. I have a degree in Industrial technology from the University of Maryland. Many of my classes were the same ones that the shop teachers took. Could never find the time to take woodworking classes though. I understand that it had one of the best Industrial Arts programs in the US at the time (1983). From what I understand they dont even teach Industrial arts at that school any more. This is what they look like incase you are interested.

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Reply to
vmtw

This is long, sorry, but I think it fits in with this thread. I used to be a wood shop teacher. In 1994 our district felt that a Tech Lab would be a better way to go and so the wood shop was dismantled and the Tech Lab put in. Let me tell you about it. When you walk into a Tech Lab, it looks wonderful. Usually the floors are carpeted, the computers are humming, and the furniture is magnificent to look at. Students are assigned two to a module, there is a lot of room for them to work, and it is all set up for them to be successful. Wow, makes your heart skip a beat. It did mine.

After nine years with a tech lab, I have come to the conclusion that they are GROSSLY expensive, a management headache and a poor way to teach. Additionally they are sold as a replacement for shop class. This last item I think borders on insanity. Shop classes cannot be replaced by anything! Shop classes are where students give rise to their creative urges and they develop hand skills that they will use for the rest of their life. After nine years of using a Tech Lab, I think they can best be described as a very expensive honors science class. If that is what you are looking for, and money is no objective, either now or in the future, than by all means go ahead and purchase the tech lab, but don't give up the shop class. Keep your checkbook handy because you are just starting to spend.

Our tech lab was purchased with sixteen modules. Each module taught some aspect of the modern technical world. Our particular vendor had about a hundred or so types of modules to pick from. We chose sixteen. Funny thing as I look back on it we were in such a rush to keep up with the educational Jones's, that we selected the modules more on what they cost than what they taught. Some of the modules are BIG TIME expensive. The desks are impressive to look at. Wow, are they nice. They had better be, they cost us $3995.00 each. Oh please add on shipping and taxes. California in its infinite wisdom charges schools sales tax on things that schools buy. Now this is just the Desks. Does not include the computers, the software, the books, or the various little teaching devices unique to each module. No it did not even include chairs. Oh, the vendor wanted to sell us chairs too. (They sell everything you could possibly need, usually at higher prices.) However, get this, the chairs they wanted to sell us had wheels on them and cost $100.00 each. Stop for a second and imagine seventh and eighth graders with wheeled chairs. Remember when you were in seventh and eighth? Wouldn't chairs with wheels have been fun? Well you say, "just a small management problem." There are enough management problems without creating another. Who needs it? Why do the kids need wheeled chairs? The wheels will wear out and be costly to replace. As it turned out we found chairs at $19.95 each that were quite suitable, matched the décor, had no wheels, and every last one of them is still very serviceable and still in use and so help me I've had a number of kids who weighed over three hundred pounds. Now you say, why is he obsessing on these chairs? Because I do not believe that these tech labs are well thought out, except to the degree that they make money for the vendors, and the chairs are symptomatic of lack of thought. By the way, we need new carpeting but there is no money, thank God for duct tape.

In our classroom which, by the way, is about 2400 square feet, we have two what I will call islands that are four desk clusters. These sit out in the middle of the room and you can walk completely around each of them. They are about eight feet tall. They require that the wiring come down from the ceiling or up through the floor, a costly procedure. But worse, consider this: Have you ever hunted squirrels? The squirrel naturally goes to opposite side of the tree from the hunter. Kids are similar. The student who is up to mischief instinctively goes to the opposite side of the module cluster from where the teacher is. About five years ago I purchased three of those security mirrors that you see in convenience stores. To a degree this ameliorates the problem. The point is I want to be able to see every square inch of this place. I do not want any blind spots. I believe these blind spots are just another lack of thought on the part of the vendor.

Lets go back to the $3995 plus, plus shipping, desks. Part of what sold us on this vendor was that the desks were reputed to be well built. Over the last five years, I have been fixing part of the shelving. On the modules there is a 3 foot span that has a solid piece of reinforcing on the bottom of a piece of 3/4 oak veneer. These were stapled together, over the years the staples have been pulling out, and the two pieces are separating. As this happens, I, like a good shop teacher, have been gluing and screwing them back together. In addition, as I do it, I find, often to my chagrin, that the oak veneer has many voids in it. The screw collapses the veneer when the screw happens to go through a void. Wow only $3995.00 plus tax plus shipping.

The management of these tech labs is easy as pie if you have students who have initiative and intelligence. The way it is supposed to work is that the student sits down, logs into the computer with their identification data and, then the computer tells them, or prints on the screen what they are supposed to do. If the kids are not intelligent, or lack initiative, or are too busy chatting with their partner, the work will not get done and after five or ten minutes they will want you to tell them what they are supposed to do. I don't mind telling them, but it gets hectic if you consider that my periods are

50 minutes long, and with 16 modules I have an average of three minutes per module. By the way the vendor must not expect you to do any teaching because I get letters from them addressing me as "Dear Facilitator". Every one of the modules has a place on it where it says that today you instructor will come by and evaluate such and such. Is this part of the three minutes or is there another block of time that has been hidden from me? Every now and then one of the computers will break down. It is getting more frequent lately. Sometimes seriously!!! Two years ago one of my new computers broke down. When I called , the Vendor's people said, "oh yes you have what we call the blue screen of death." It was in May thank goodness. They told me to call Dell and they would help. They have a two year on site maintenance agreement. Ha Ha it consists of calling Dell and listening to music for a while until someone answers the phone. The help I got on the phone was worthless. The only thing that saved me was the fact that in August we bought more modules and the vendor sent some people to install them and they fixed whatever the problem was. I feel like Captain Hook, the alarm clock, and the Crocodile, wondering when it will break down again and I will be on my own to get it fixed. When a computer breaks down you have students with nothing to do. Since much of their progress is recorded on the computer, you are up the creek until it gets fixed. Oh yes and God help you if a virus ever gets on your system.

Most of the modules have flaws in them as far as what they teach. Some flaws are big some are little. The whole thrust of my statement is that they were in a hurry to jump on the computer bandwagon and get some of those computer/educational bucks that were flowing in the

90's. These tech labs are and will be expensive and you'd better be ready to spend about 30 to 40 thousands every 5-6 years when the computers you have become outmoded. Some of my modules are still operating with the old Macintosh computers that were sold to us in 1994. They are getting problematic and it is harder and harder to get parts and repair work done and there is no money to buy the new modules that use Windows and Dell computers.

In all of this you have to ask yourself, "what are we gaining by going into computers.? It is not as if you're teaching computers, you're using computers to teach. A good teacher, when teaching something, will notice when the lights go on in a student's eyes. The computer will never notice this and you have no idea how a student is doing until the fail a test. By then the module is over and a new student is on the module and you can't have the failing student re do it. As I said this whole thing was never really thought out. Back in the nineties everyone just hopped on the computer bandwagon with no idea where it was going.

I went to college in the 60's. At that time my professors said that often times shop is used by the administration as a dumping ground for poor academic performers. I don't think of shop as a dumping ground but rather as a place where students can develop their skills that aren't used in the academic classes. The Tech lab does not lend itself to developing the same skills that a shop develops, but the criteria for sending a student to tech lab seems to be the same. I get the resource students, whose usual problem is that they are poor readers. We also had a program here called the alternative school. In it students had mostly one teacher for all their subjects except gym and elective. These were kids who had problems in the standard classroom setting. Often they were discipline problems, I get them. They love the hidden spaces behind the module islands. ( see my paragraph above on these) Oh yes, I also get the kids who are what we call special day class. Some of these kids have trouble writing their name. I get them. The tech lab is no place for these kids, mainly because there is not enough of me to go around. Bless her heart I even had a child who suffered from Down's Syndrome. She was a really nice person but she had no idea what was going on.

All of these kids I can do something with in a shop. It is not hard and the kids by and large love shop. When we abandoned the shop nine years ago I saved some of the machinery and tools. I have a small shop about 600 square feet off to one side of the big room. I have an after school woodworking club that I have more students joining than I have room for. In a phrase, they are voting with their feet.

Somewhere in our educational sojourn we have entered into a love affair with the computer. At first everything is peachy keen but then the grim realities surface and the computer is not the educational end all be all that we think it is. Sometimes it seems like all we have to do is say computer and the educational checkbook goes into autopilot. By the way, whenever you hear the phrase "Technology" it is a buzzword for "canned learning using computers." Remember when we were kids and they had those filmstrips that had a tape deck with them? You would show a frame and the tape deck would give some information, then a beep and you would advance the frame, well computers are another form of that.

If you watch the news there is starting to be awareness that the US is losing its manufacturing edge. Part of it is globalism, and part of it is that we no longer are producing students with craft skills. Are we going to contract every thing out and if so, to whom? I would venture it takes a nation about five generations to become technically advanced and if we are not careful we can lose it in a generation. Ever wonder how Japan and Germany were able to rebuild so quickly after WWII? It is because they had a huge technically trained population with knowledge in their heads that allowed them to rebuild. We are losing this advantage and the loss of shops accelerates it.

Reply to
Bob Itnyre

I remember "language labs" waaaay back when. Self-paced learning is what they touted.

They haven't changed the sales pitch, and we haven't learned our lesson.

SNIP

Reply to
George

Do not knock the self paced concept. I was part of an educational experiment in the 1970's in dental school. We had a group of 24 students and lots of instructional materials and resources(predates the personal computer). We were interested and motivated and took advantage of the opportunity. I now find myself teaching at a dental school with a new paradigm: problem based learning. It works if you are motivated to learn. It is not for everyone!

By the way I vote for the shop courses. I am a metal and woodworker as well (I never had a shop course in high school, but I did make up for this deficit later on). Also, my son had shop at Stuyvesent high school in NYC, and he loved it (now an aeronautical engineer and pilot for the US Air Force).

Charles Friedman DDS Ventura CA

Reply to
Charles Friedman

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