On finials and lids

Hi Kevin

You can use different ways and different material to decorate boxes, if you can get a hold of R Raffan's turning boxes book you'll get a lot of ideas, Chris Stott is an other prolific box turner, there are more. Most often my personal taste goes for a clean form and no added finials, but for some box shapes a small finial or inlay looks real good, and they can be the same or a total different color and/or material, and smaller is better is my opinion on size, and just adding something if it would look better without, does not make sense.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Kev> I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of

An integral finial, as already mentioned, will make for tough work on a cross-grained project. It makes for a lot of wasted big wood on a long grain orientation. I'd plan on an added finial, preferably in contrasting wood, if you're going that route.

Remember, to increase you chances of success, turn a bit oversize, make sure things are dry with either time or a microwave -can't dry things by soaking them - then turn to fit.

Kevin -

For my lidded pot, i took a half a pen blank (as i split up the other half), turned a small tenon on it and a matching hole in the top of the lid and superglued them together. that way, the lid never came off the lathe and stayed round.

just a thought. but, it was a maple pot with a cocobolo finial. not too bad as it was a nice contrast (and my wife loved it).

Rob

I just turned one of box elder with a jatoba base and lid / box elder finial LOTSARED!

I really like this one. I'm thinking of coating it with satin polyurethane once the oil (walnut) has had a chance to cure. But I'm not sure I want to sell this one ... it's the pick of the litter so far.

Bill

you may wish to eschew polyurethanes - they don't feel right (at least to me) - lacquer or just oil, and carnuba wax has a much nicer feel - urethanes are kinda soft and sticky feeling (again, my opinion, ymmv)

Definately an opinion- I actually like spar poly for most of my stuff. The only finish I prefer is shellac, even though it smells like a wet dog when sanding and isn't very good for anything that has a chance of getting wet.

Deft is good stuff, too.

Going out on a limb here- even though I do finish things with wax only sometimes, doing that feels, well, waxy. And, much stickier feeling to my paws than a thin coat of a decent poly.

If poly feels "sticky" it might be the formulation (some are softer than others) or there might be something preventing it from curing (I've seen some brands take a month to cure on some woods) or it might be outdated or have been stored at excessive temperature resulting in an inability to cure properly.

I don't notice a lot of difference in "feel" between, say wipe-on Minwax, and bare wood taken to an equal level of polish (if the bare wood will take that kind of polish). Sand LV to 12,000 grit and polish with its own oil and the result doesn't look or feel a whole lot different from Corian.

The Spanish colloqialism (sp?) is:

"Hay no disputa gusta"

There is no disputing taste.

Or in Latin, "de gustibus non disputandum est," which can be either "there is no arguing over taste" or "there is no accounting for taste."

My favorite wax by far is Rennaissance wax. Although it is very pricey, a little bit goes a long way. Rennaissance wax over shellac is the very best, IMHO, but it is delicate. I had someone describe it to me as being like a woman in a dress -- very nice to look at, but not suited for had work. The same can be true for wood finishing, there are tradeoffs.

tt

Shellac is more resistant to water than you may think. One of the problems with shellac and water is/was the _wax_ in the shellac. Seems it did what wax does when it meets water, swell up and color. That's why wax finishes and selling venues near open water don't mix. The wax is hygroscopic, and what was slick as the proverbial bb becomes sticky in the high humidity.

I'm not an oenophile, lacking the palate, nor am I an anti poly, lacking the visual sensitivity. A finish which is transparent and smooth looks very much like any other transparent and smooth finish. Feels like it, too. I think the "plastic" accusation has to do with the ease with which high-solids finishes like brushing poly build surfaces. Betting none of the above critics would be able to distinguish between poly and French polish any more than SWMBO, whose exquisite taste in men qualifies her as an expert everywhere could just now. She even has her glasses on.

You're right George, and even that isn't that much of a problem. I've used shellac as a finish on a bowl and eaten hot soup out of it with no apparent change in the finish. (It cured for some time before I did - wasn't immediately afterwards.)

It was garnet if I recall. I don't remember if I decanted the shellac off after the wax settled or if I used it freshly mixed.

My inspiration to try was due to a post over in rec.woodworking that some custom wood canoe maker used non-dewaxed shellac for a finish on his canoes...

...Kevin

That's probably true- what I've got is Minwax Paste Wax- which I'm sure is not pure carnuba, or even particularly high-end. But it's all I could find locally, and I wasn't too worked up about finding it online when I bought the stuff.

After seeing how long a can lasts, I'll probably make the effort of finding better wax when this stuff is gone.

There's a lot to that- if you put 6 or 7 coats of poly on something, it's bound to look like it's been encased in plastic, and feel soft- but for most things, 1-3 coats will do, and look just like many other clearcoats, especially if you use something like oil to "pop" the grain before applying the poly.

The big problem with it is that if it gets scratched sometime down the line, it can't be easily repaired the way wax or shellac can because sucessive coats don't dissolve into the coat below them. (at least, that's my understanding of it)

Hmmm... I may need to try it then. I have never let a shellaced piece I like get anywhere near water, based on my memories of water rings from pop cans.

Pure carnauba you won't find in a can--the block I have can easily be mistaken for a brick. You generally use it by applying it to a buffing wheel like polishing compound. If you're not careful it will scratch your finish--it's that hard. I'm told that it's harder than concrete.

Among wax that comes in a can the Minwax is probably as good as any. Johnsons, if you can find it, is the "standard". At least one Fortune 500 aerospace company uses Butchers for mold release and the like. Just don't use car wax--most of it has silicone which will play Hell with your finish and your glue bonds and worse than that it transfers to other surfaces easily.

Hello,

I have an excellent article that I wrote on different waxes and their characteristics on my website. It goes into great detail about the various waxes and offers application protocols for use in a woodturning environment. Click on the Library button and you can view/print the article for your reference.

Carnauba Wax in particular... Is the hardest natural vegetable wax, with a penetration of only 2 dmm at 25 degrees Centigrade and only 3 dmm at 43.3 degrees Centigrade. It is brittle and non-tacky with a melting point of approximately 84 degrees Centigrade. Although Carnauba Wax produces a high lustre, it is not well suited for items that will be handled frequently.

Microcrystalline Waxes are far superior in this instance due to their unique characteristics. Macrocrystalline waxes offer good moisture resistance, but do not offer the broad range of protection of their Microwax siblings. If you have any questions after reading my article, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks and best wishes to all of you!

While it's nice to know that there are all these different kinds of wax, googling, for example, "polyethylene wax" doesn't get any hits that will sell in less than truckload quantities except for a couple of outfits selling what appears to be snake oil in a bottle on ebay. Some suppliers would be helfpul.