Robo You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.
I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not that easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my inexperience trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it awkward to bring up enough for a shear cut.
So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.
Thanks, George, that was the brand I was thinking of. They have a more rounded bit shaped like a "comma" that was what I referred to.
I'd like to think that I can fairly well do a smooth continuous cut with my gouges. When it comes finishing time you can see or feel imperfections that a larger contact area avoids. I'm after that waxed feel that is to the hand what a heavily lacquered cherry apple paint job on a car is to the eye.
Get better with a scraper.. ;-] Try using a sweeping motion, like an arc... A scraper cuts with the burr from sharpening it, and the burr goes away very fast... Sharpen often.. Play with tool rest height and scraper angle.. I use about a 3 degree angle on my scraper grind, so what works for me is to have the rest adjusted so that the scraper when level is just a hair above center line.. Only practice will determine what works for you..
Get a scraper rest or a rest with a flat top.. When you use the angled top rest that most lathes come with, the scraper is ok when you're dead center, but as you sweep your arc, the scraper tends to tilt a bit to the side when it follows the angled rest top.. My favorite is a big, ugly French curve rest with a flat top...
The tool you're looking for is sort of a single purpose tool.. I was thinking of getting one for boxes and things, which IMO it's more suited for than bowls..
I tried this, which is ok for deep work and not bad for side/bottom scraping..
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It would be a great tool if I didn't already have the Oneway Termite and if it held angle better, but I fixed that.. It hollows well, scrapes some things well and is supposed to be an alternative to a bowl gouge.. I really like the square shaft.. lets you know that your tip orientation is ok..
Downside is the $120 price, but it's a pretty good tool..
Hi Tom, If you haven't already tried it, you might want to take an old carbon steel forged shallow flute gouge say 3/4 in. that you aren't using and keeping a full rounded fingernail shape, grind a long bevel & sharp edge evenly across the _Flute side. With the tool upside down and both wings flat on the rest and the bevel rubbing, pull it at an angle along the outside of a bowl or spindle.
The wings flat on the rest fix and stabilize the shearing angle and the tangent of the two curved surfaces of wood and tool is easy to control.
Hi Ralph, Thanks for your suggestion. A big SRG sounds like a good idea. It should offer a more vertical shearing angle than a spindle gouge. Trouble is those big gouges are hard to find used and new, too expensive to play with.
Does Jim use his reverse ground SRG frequently or just showed that the grind and technique does work? I seldom if ever use mine, but I thought Tom might find the method fun and maybe helpful.
Take a look at these two short video clips from my website on shear cutting on the outside and inside of a bowl. The tool I'm using is a bull nose scraper on the inside and a dedicated shear scraper on the exterior.
If you have an Irish grind bowl gouge, you could use that to shear scrape on the exterior, but you still need something curved for shear scraping the interior.
I'm a big proponent of shear scraping and use it frequently in my studio to reduce the amount of abrasives needed and to refine the shape of the project. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask...
Some great responses and I appreciate them muchly.
Being specific. Sometimes I/we forget how people will hear us and make assumptions. I was sloppy in my question and embarassed at having to add other posts. Specifically this problem arose with two conditions - partially spalted crotch wood (hard then soft spots) and particularly the inside of an undercut rim, soup mug kinda shaped bowl where a gouge stays on its tip instead of its wings and the undercut precludes the gouge for some of the area.
Even on the outside I was unable to handle that bouncy surface with a gouge shear cut on the wings. You had to stay away from the bevel and just kiss the surface with the wings as a scraper or use a flat scraper and just barely touch any protrusions. And as has been noted the outside can be handled but the inside requires something special.
The shear cut I was referring to is the sort Robo and Steve Russell referred to. That final, evening out, wispy cut. Steve's using a bullnosed scraper angled about 45* which means the left edge is not under the actually cutting point and must be rounded or is likely to catch on the rest as you're using it. Further, I wanted to continue that action up the side and under that rim.
What looked like the ideal tool was the Sorby 8803H 28" overall (17" handle) with removable and adjustable bits, particularly the large oval/straight bit that resembles a "comma". My thought was that the rounded shaft with a minimal flat would be very flexible and supportive. The articulating head with the straight portion of the bit could reach under some hollow forms or this bowls undercut.
So I bothered you folks to see if what looked "ideal" was reality or what other techniques applied to this particular situation. Thanks TomNie
To Steve, and others willing to answer, I am pretty much a self-taught turner who has learned most of how to do things from this newsgroup and several books. I took a look at the two videos regarding shear cutting and have a couple questions and my own attempts to answer them. You show that when shear cutting with a scraper you actually tilt the scraper at a 45 degree angle. Two things came to mind. First, what about the amount of torque that would be applied to the scraper? Wouldn't that require a 'death grip' on the handle? Second was the damage that could be done to the tool rest as the scraper is run across it. Then I thought a bit more about possible answers. Would the amount of torque be rather negligible as the cuts made are very light? Second, would it be correct to assume that the edges on the scraper are rounded so as to lessen any damage that would be done to the tool rest?
Why not shear with benefit of bevel? Makes it almost impossible to dig in, gives a surface that's about 150 by default from a 100 stone, 220 or better if you hone and fuss. It's done, among other ways, like this.
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Leaving evidence like this.
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Yes, that is soft, punky wood on the far side and near the bottom, but with a good toolrest to help and a bevel to reference where you're going to where you've been, who worries?
I use a scraper pretty much level with center of tipped slightly down, which I think is pretty standard?
I've seen some box making videos where the scraper is pointed down quite a bit, the scrapers were VERY thick and the turner (Bonnie) had a lot of experience with her method.. For most of us mere mortals, it sounds not only dangerous, but a good way to mess up a chunk of wood..
Ayup. Down hill, down grain in the case of this piece. If I'm undercutting a rim, I will have to pull a fingernail grind gouge from the bottom of the undercut toward the rim in order to stay down grain.
If you look at the shaving, you can see that I have just begun broadening the cut. The twist was tight when I entered at a high angle to the grain, and is now widening as the gouge is rotated to a shear. The heel of the bevel never contacts, just a section parallel to the edge. The support you get keeps you from digging in and helps you get a consistent thickness shaving.
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