I dunno. More rapid yeast growth is generally accomplished by warmer temperatures which if overdone can lead to some really nasty tasting and smelling bread. On the other hand, I am able to taste the difference between a retarded proof and a normal proof--there is increased 'sweetness' and nuttiness to the lean breads. There is no doubt that there is little to be gained in a retail or commercial baking setting by retarding proof as it is unlikely that you will be able to price up a loaf to reflect the lost production time. But in the home setting, a retarded proof produces a better flavored lean loaf. Janet
Maybe not the yeast's, but for me, quality includes the flavor and=20 texture of the baked (or fermented/brewed for that matter) goods.
Of course, it also has to do with more thorough hydration of the dough,=20 but a slowly fermented dough just produces a better tasting product for=20 that matter, IMHO.
--=20 Grue$$e.
C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_) " Strive for excellence in your life & reject being a doormat to others. = Serve God. "
You make an excellent point. The dough itself produces heat as it ferments. If you were to put the bowl or formed loaves in a poofed up plastic bag or box or similar, you would be very surprised at the amount of heat and moisture that is generated. Once one learns the techniques of making bread correctly and stops watching the clock, one finds that bread proceeds rapidly on its own without additional warmth. A lot of bread is slow to rise just because it has too much flour or is not kneaded enough. Janet
What seems to be missing from this discussion is the role of bacteria. There are always two types of fermentation occurring in the dough: fungal and bacterial fermentation. Yeast (fungus) reproduces well in a narrow range of temperature (as someone already noted) producing mostly CO2 and alcohol. Bacteria reproduce more slowly and can continue to reproduce and metabolize at temperatures below the ideal temperatures for yeast. These bacteria produce organic acids and esters that change the pH of the dough and impart many complex flavors. Therefore, if you ferment the dough at a high temperature that favors the yeast, you get few of the flavorful compounds but you do achieve the doubling in size that is required for most bread. When you ferment the dough at a low temperature, it takes much longer for the yeast to produce enough CO2 for the dough to rise thus giving the bacteria time to do their thing.
Did you use a lot of yeast to get it to do this? I cannot get my dough to rise in less than 3-4 hours at this temperature. I never put it in the refrigerator to rise anymore. After I take it out of the refrigerator after and overnight and warm it up, it might take all day to rise, ALWAYS too darned lated to have bread even that day. I certainly would love to have that second overnight rise IN the refrigerator, but I can't get it right.
So I specifically latched on to the above "In fact, I don't recall too
Two possibilities I think. My daughter recently complained that she couldn't get her wheat bread to rise. I noticed that she was taking ice cold ingredients from storage and mixing the yeast with tepid water. That's an easy fix. Make sure that the ingredients are room temperature warm and use water for the yeast according to package instructions and you should end up with a finished dough that is about 80F--perfect. The other possibility is that you are using too much flour either in the mixing or kneading, and the dough is too stiff to rise well--dough doesn't have to look dry and crumbly to be too dry. Janet
My JennAir starts at 100F. My mother's KitchenAid oven has a special proof setting (as do the newer JennAirs among others) that is programmed at 100F. My new Sharp Convection/Microwave also has a 100F setting that they recommend for proofing. I would imagine that most newer ovens with electronic controls can be set at 100F. You can get product information for Dacor at their website.
100F is too warm. Yeast likes it at around 80F. Too cold, no rise, too hot and the some yeast cells die off. What I do is turn my oven on to 200F, for
1 minute, and then turn it off. I have a thermapen that i use to check the dough temperature, and that's worked for me. My first rise is 2 hours, and the dough stays close to 80F.
My second rise is 45 minutes, and that's on the counter. I get the bottom from a plastic storage box (shallow, but large and rectangular), invert it over the baguettes. Then I take a measuring cup full of boiling water, and stick it in there. The moisture and heat help the dough rise. The rolls are laying in a piece of muslin that's been floured and waved to make little rising beds. I still cover the rolls with plastic wrap though.
A method I learned from _The Best Bread Ever_, is to measure the temperature of your flour. Take 145F - flour temp = water temp. After mixing in the food processor, you'll be spot on your target temp (at least in mine). Check your process and adjust as necessary.
Buy instant yeast instead of active yeast to bypass "activating" your yeast in warm water. Just mix it with your dry ingredients. Instant yeast contains very few dead yeasts, unlike active yeast, so you need less of it. I don't have the conversion factor between the two types with me, but I could look it up. You can use either in any recipe with the right conversion. Cook's Illustrated had an article on it. BTW, I got a large brick of instant yeast at a restaurant supply store for a lot less than those jars in the chain stores (safeway, albertsons, etc). Must be about 5 or six jars worth. I filled up a couple of jars, vacuum sealed and refrigerated the rest.
Some folks use a picnic cooler with a small light inside--40W. Others have used a heating pad--use a rack to elevate the bottom of the bowl above the pad--or use a light bulb again--then invert a box or wrap/cover in towels and blankets. I used to use my microwave--filled with quart jars of very hot water.
Lately I just let it go natural in my cool house, ~64 degrees. It takes longer, but the bread tastes better!
Many if the current bread gurus are touting the longer, cooler rise for making superior bread: more complex flavor elements need longer rises and cooler temperatures to developed. Some even "retard" bread development in the refrigerator overnight. See books by Peter Reinhart, Nancy Silverton, Carol Field, and several others. I have tried it and it really is the way to go. One can have a bread recipe going all the time if there is room in the 'fridge! Just fold it down once per day. I made a really good batch of pizza dough over a full week recently. When we finally stretched it out and used it, I could not believe the great elasticity of the dough---and the taste was the best!
Let us know what method you use and what the results are.
Well I worked in a retail bakery (13 outlets) and a small village type bakery. All the sourdough was retarded for 24hrs. in the larger operation. In the smaller one I would retard the final dough for up to three days.
The consideration here was more one of cooler space/energy than production time which is off-set somewhat by the shorter mixing times.
At home here I'm retarding the lean doughs for at least 36 hours, or should I say 36 hours in the frig, then another 12 hours til bake off. This is with 7-9lbs batches however. I think the trade off is frig energy vs production time gained because I don't use a pre-ferment so there is only one mix. It's just a drawn out straight-dough method without the 'punch downs'. One mix, one ferment, a long bench rest/proof, rounding/rest/proof, shaping, a final proof and there ya go.
I think the quality of the bread is dramatically improved.
The longer you can keep that dough fermenting and still hold structure and a final push the better the bread will be, no question at this end.
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