double rising (or not) bread

Howdy,

In my opinion it is yet another expression of the modern tendency toward the belief that in all things "Faster is better."

That notion certainly filters its way into the (popular) baking books. Then are all loaded with hints about speeding up the process.

All the best,

I'm sensing a bit of arrogance in this group, its like people are using this group as a means of establishing their own preference as some sort of law of baked goods. The Point: I think you need to stop being so judgemental about something as trivial as bread, not everyone has the time or space to allow a bread to rise for 13 hours, so 75 minutes for a decent loaf of freshly baked bread isn't that bad. And hey, when I have 13 hours to kill, when I am 80, I will try rising the bread for the 'required time.' Aaron, wondering if this group should be called the rec.foods.yeast-growing-discussion

SNIP Aw, it isn't that bad. If you want to see fanaticism try rec.food. sourdough. Some of those people might challenge you to a duel then fly to your house if you disagree with their methods. Never, ever, mention sourdough AND yeast together in the same sentence, paragraph, or topic.

From the several bread books I've read, I don't get the sense making bread is an exact science. "Hold out a cup of flour in case" . . . . "Add more water if . . . " Measuring to a gram or single digit percentage point seems superfluous with those instructions, so I agree any "law of baking" is probably going too far, though some do try. My mom made bread all her life and never measured anything or went by a recipe that I know of and the bread was invariably wonderful, much better than anything bought in the store or bakery. My credo is try my best, enjoy doing it, and learn from each experience. If I throw in something like flax meal or steel cut oatmeal when it isn't called for in the recipe, the results are at least interesting, and usually edible. I am having fun.

Raj V

Bread made the really fast way becomes trivial, something to keep your hands clean when eating peanut butter. If all you want or need is some bread made at home, as I said, there are several ways to go about it. But, if you were ever to have the opportunity to taste the difference between bread made in an hour and bread that has been made in a slower way, you would understand why slower is encouraged. The taste difference isn't something you have to have a special sense to pick up. The fast bread just plain has a 'nasty' taste as a result of the differences in fast, overly warm fermentation. No food made at home should be considered trivial--in that case, why bother at all? Janet

I think it is a pretty exact science, but not in the context of the home kitchen. You don't have the ability to evaluate all the parameters of the ingredients. If you have any doubt, read some of Roy's posts!

My mom made bread all her life and never measured anything or went by a recipe that I know of and the bread was invariably wonderful, much better than anything bought in the store or bakery.

I'm not saying your mom did this: but my grandmother did this: She never measured anything. But, she made the same recipe over and over and over again. She did vary it by making a pan of "rolls." I loved the bread. She baked ONCE a week, and I wonder now if the bread was stale at the end of the week. I know that when we ran out of bread how happy everyone else was to be able to go to the "Corner" store (actually named, Corner, Washington Co., Ohio) and buy WonderBread, and when it came into fashion, to buy the oleo with the piece of colored gloop that we could mix into the oleo to color it to look like butter. We were still at that time churning butter, and the family seemed to welcome mashing with a fork the gloop into the Oleo. "Particularly grandma, I'd bet." Dee

What threw me was the concept of time.

Easiest thing in the world to let your loaves proof for a very long time.

If you think about it, it's actually less time than making it in one sitting. Instead of waiting around for an hour while you speed-proof, you just throw 'em in the fridge and go do something else for, oh, a day.

Then when you get around to it, remove 'em from the fridge, preheat the oven, and throw 'em in.

For extra credit, make cinnamon rolls tonight, refrigerate the pan, and bake them in the morning.

I don't think this group is being so judgmental as it is helpful; in that they would like people to realize that there are differences in the taste of bread that has risent longer. I recall going to a famous bread store that had a good reputation and we wanted to share this good bread with friends of ours who were with us. They got all stiff and resistant and even though we sat and ate some that we purchased at the store, they wouldn't even taste it. They had no curiousity how it tasted, nor an inclination to buy a loaf and take it home. Different strokes. Dee

I'm making cinnamon rolls right now, but I can't wait for tomorrow to bake them. I often split a batch of dough and bake off some now and refrigerate the rest. That way I don't end up like Dee's grandmother and have stale bread at the end of the week.

Your mother may not have used a recipe, but she probably learned from her mother how to do it. "Take a couple of the scoops of flour, this much yeast, some salt." She was shown how much of each thing to use and how the dough looked and felt at each stage.

I love people who post messages calling people names and then accuse everyone else of being judgmental. I also wonder if "Aaron" bothered to read much of what people have written. I do recall the word "refrigerator" mentioned a number of times. That is, you don't have to sit there monitoring the dough for 13 hours. You simply put it in the refrigerator and get about your normal business. Also, the baking police aren't going to jail you for baking the way that you want. Just because I don't like something or recommend a particular method doesn't mean that anyone is required to agree. I think it is best to know the basics and strive for the ideal. Sometimes you have to compromise, but if no one ever bothers with a discussion of the ideal, then we are all doomed to mediocrity. Ignorance may be bliss, but it doesn't lead to good baking.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Well, I was proven correct. This group does contain a great deal of arrogance, a kind of stupid elitism about some construct of 'longer' rising. In the brief period I've been on this group. I have receive more MIS-information than anything else. I'm glad you all have found a drawn out way of making bread. I was simply offended at the put downs about the "fast way" of bread making, my preference. But the truth is if you actually kneaded the bread correctly and appropriately, the bread has a delicious and wonderful flavor. Yeast metabolize at an OPTIMAL temperature of 85 degrees, ~90 percent humidity and it digests SUGAR, either sugars contained in the flour mix or sugars you add to the water to 'prime' it. It really doesn't matter how fast the dough rises so long as there is adaquate gluten derived from the kneading process and it doubles in size at least once.

The shame is instead of trying to discuss an issue and LEARN a more natural technique, albeit a more involved method, you criticized it and me; not a very friendly group, not really about "baking" is it. Also Dee, please do not disrespect me, "Aaron" is my name not some abstract reference. BTW, I've only made the 'nasty' bread when its been too cold for the dough to properly double and apparently have gotten impatient, should have stuck it in the fridge.

The only arrogant poster I see is you. If you are so offended, why are you here? I would suggest that you would be happier elsewhere, but I doubt that you will be happy anywhere.

-- Hitachi HB-A101 bread machine, 1 pound Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com (01/10/05)

Ah, just block the sender. He will never show up again. Unfortunately, any replies to his rantings will, so just don't reply to him.

I find him amusing.

Howdy,

Perhaps you are confusing "OPTIMAL" with most rapid...

All the best,

Also

Please re-read my email. I did not refer to you by name at all.

BTW, I've only made the 'nasty' bread when its been too

Also

Please re-read my email. I did not refer to you by name at all. I have no reason to disrespect you at all. Dee

I don't know. After the last message I think I have a reason or two.