Gluten Extensibility Problem

I've inherited a large quantity of very low protein pastry flour tha

I'm trying to make pizza from by combining with vital wheat gluten I've tried varying ratios of VWG to pastry flour along with varyin levels of hydration and no matter what I do, I'm not getting a extensible dough/proper sheeting. From the moment the VWG start hydrating it acts like torn/overworked/lumpy dough and appears to sta that way for the duration of the baking process.

I normally work with a bromated high protein spring wheat flour an after it's been allowed to hydrate a bit, it's pretty muc insta-sheeting/perfection every time. Is VWG damaged gluten? And if so, is this damage irreversible? If not, are there ways of encouragin VWG to be more extensible?

Can VWG be left out in the open air to oxidize like you would regula flour? Will this make a difference?

My regular bread flour dough gets a 15-20 min autolyse. 30 minute seemed to have very little effect on the VWG version. Would a overnight autolyse help? Besides an extended autolyse, would a overnight cold proof help the gluten hydrate?

I like the flavors I get from a long cool rise so I've been taking thi route with the VWG. Will reverting to a warm proof give me additiona extensibility?

Does ascorbic acid help with extensibility? Rye bread is made with VWG correct? Does the acid formed during the souring process aid i extensibility?

Because the VWG dough appears to be overworked/torn right off the bat my natural inclination is not to knead it any more. Should I ignor this impulse and knead it aggressively like I would normal dough? I'v tried kneading/not kneading, but the results have been pretty much th same- lumpy, easily torn dough

-- scott123

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scott123
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Scott 123 wrote .I've inherited a large quantity of very low protein pastry flour that

If you fortify your lower protein flour with vital wheat gluten you are unlikely to get the same extensibility as the normal high protein flour. One reason is the gluten quality of low protein and high protein flour are not the same. There is a variance in protein characteristics. Another factor is the usual ack of enzymatic activity with lower gluten flours Adding more water during mixing to soften it will also help....

VWG is still intact protein suited for fortifying weaker flours but the extensibility will not be equal due to some other factors. Adding diastatic malt to the lower protein wheat gluten combination will make it extensible enough for sheeting but ensure first that the dough is normally hydrated.

VWG is pretty stable to storage and inert to oxidation; unless its stored at elevated temperatures where the protein will gradually denature in time affecting its functionality in breadmaking.

Autolyse just enable the flour to hydrate completely making it loose and extensible.

Much extended autolyze is seldom done in the bakery so its impractical but theoretically it should loosen up the gluten in your case.

This is another weird terminology practiced by home bakers; its more of a refrigerated fermentation in bakers parlance (in the presence of yeast) will not only hydrate the flour but also allowing biochemical activity as well. Trying to improve the bad situation by allowing the dough to equilibrate itself is a waste of time if compared to addressing the problem at the moment of dough preparation

Normal high gluten flour is malted or enzyme active but low protein flour enriched with gluten usually has low diastatic activity.; the remedy add diastatic malt to the flour gluten mixture. The proteases in the malt will tenderize the gluten making it extensible, however there is a word of caution not all flours will behave equally to this treatment and you have to check for your self. Another thing is adding more malt is not recommended as it will make the dough sticky, there is a point that optimum for a certain flour and that is proven by actual tests.

Warm proofing tends to tighten underhydrated dough preventing even expansion.

Nope, it will tighten the gluten,...... but diastatic malt ...will.

Some version of rye bread contains gluten fortifications

To a certain extent ...

The gluten enriched lower protein flour tends to be tight partly due to lack of enzymatic activity and also to improper hydration

Take note also that as you add more gluten the hydration is also higher so one reason for the tight dough is it needs more water. Kneading it aggressively will tire you easily.....its not worth it using it to solve defective dough.

Reply to
chembake

Scott 123 wrote .I've inherited a large quantity of very low protein pastry flour that

If you fortify your lower protein flour with vital wheat gluten you are unlikely to get the same extensibility as the normal high protein flour. One reason is the gluten quality of low protein and high protein flour are not the same. There is a variance in protein characteristics. Adding more water during mixing to soften it will also help....

VWG is still intact protein suited for fortifying weaker flours but the extensibility will not be equal due to some other factors. Adding diastatic malt to the lower protein wheat gluten combination will make it extensible enough for sheeting but ensure first that the dough is normally hydrated.

VWG is pretty stable to storage and inert to oxidation; unless its stored at elevated temperatures where the protein will gradually denature affecting its functionality in breadmaking.

Normal high gluten flour is malted or enzyme active but low protein flour enriched with gluten usually has low diastatic activity.; the remedy add diastatic malt to the flour gluten mixture. The proteases in the malt will tenderize the gluten making it extensible, however there is a word of caution not all flours will behave equally to this treatment and you have to check for your self. Another things is adding more malt is not recommended as it will make the dough sticky, there is a point that optimum for a certain flour.

Warm proofing tends to tighten underhydrated dough preventing even expansion.

Nope, it will tighten the gluten,...... but diastatic malt ...will.

Some version of rye bread contains gluten fortifications

To a certain extent ...

The gluten enriched lower protein flour tends to be tight partly due to lack of enzymatic activity and also to improper hydration

Take note also that as you add more gluten the hydration is also higher so one reason for the tight dough is it needs more water.

Reply to
chembake

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