KitchenAid Stand Mixer - 5 or 6 Quart Professional?

When did the calculator disappear? I just migrated to Cingular, and bought a new Nokia (3120? I think...). It's not the best calculator, but it beats the heck out of the one in the LG camera phones the rest of the family got. What I'd *really* like would be a decent semi-scientific calc I could download in Java!

Dave

Well said, and very good advice. However, for the *small* (quantity) home baker (whether frequent or in-), is there a reasonable, scaled-down version of the great Hobart, that can handle 5 to 7 quarts, instead of

20-plus?

Dave

At this juncture I cannot, in all good conscience, neither justify nor afford a Hobart mixer, much as I might like to have one. I do have a Hobart era KitchenAid.

If I had to replace a mixer just now, I would opt for the Viking 7 qt. model. Both it and its smaller sister have all metal gears. While neither have a long track record, I've seen no negative criticism on the product.

I've been buying obsolete TDMA phones. My 6160 had the calculator, the

5160 (and 5165 for that matter) and 3360 do not.

I miss being able to pull out the phone and do rudimentary calculations

- I'm a compulsive comparison shopper, but i use an advanced an incredibly fuzzy and cumbersome theory of comparison shopping where i ignore ads and spend too much time wandering around in stores.

I end up doing a lot of price-per-unit calculation in my head that i used to do on the phone, this allows me to determine, for example, that the jumbo size roll of paper towels costs about 2% more per sheet than the normal size roll. I then groan and buy it anyway because i prefer buying paper towels less often.

But the math that i do in my head is a lot fuzzier, so, i recently purchased this:

Some friends of mine have the phones that fold out into a full keyboard,and can do just about anything on them. My problem with the camera phones is the fact that the images are typically of fairly poor quality and the fact that many carriers expect me to pay them for the convenience of doing anything with them. I have a great deal of contempt for the 'perceived value' pricing model that the telephone service industry is based on. I've worked in the industry and know too well what's on the other end of the perception.

Some providers disable the phone's ability to transfer images (and other data, such as address books) over a data cable (or infrared, or bluetooth) and then expect you to pay per image to have it transferred to you over their network. I find this repugnant and refuse to play their game, so I'm sticking with my $10 years-old phone and $15/mo service until i somehow need more.

Not to say that i won't pay for quality when i see it. Getting excellent shots out of my new Canon 5mpixel camera:

(of course, i did wait until Amazon briefly offered it for $30 less thananyone else, and with free shipping too) (frugality is not for theimpatient or weak of heart) Ironically, the only thing that's piqued my interest in high end phones of late was an announcement from Samsung of all people that they are planning to embed a 3 gigabyte hard drive in a feature-filled phone. If they can cram a reasonably decent 3 megapixel or higher camera into that as well . . . . . it will probably cost so much money that i still wouldn't buy it.

There's a real mystique about the possibility of a device that can replace my cell phone, digital camera, and palm pilot, but i don't predict anyone doing it *well any time soon.

it sure looks like my Hobart era Kitchen Aid.

I would recommend a 10 quart HOBART C-100 which is excellent for small scale baking ranging from batters, doughs and pastes. Here you can mix optiimally small scale doughs that range in stiffness from bagels to ciabattas. A kilogram flour base for any dough fits nicely and that is what should every baking enthusiast do so he or she can apply both small the commercial formula and larger scale homemade recipes. The 20 qusrt model is over the top for the baking hobbyist. and need at least 2 kilogram of llour to be of optimum performance for doughs. Roy

It's pricey enough..... but it's better than your Hobart era KitchenAid. The Hobart era KitchenAid mixers still had variable speed motors, which are inherently at a disadvantage when kneading bread. The motor is required to develop lots of torque when it's at low speed. And electric motors don't like doing that.

The mixer in the picture, which has been made for a long, long time (look on eBay for a hobart N-50 and you'll see some real antiques) has a geared transmission. That means the mixer has only three speeds, but they are three carefully chosen speeds. And it also means that the motor is running at its optimum speed no matter what speed the mixer is running at.

I have a Hobart era KitchenAid, a K45SS. And when I read the manual it warns me that it can't knead more than two batches of bread in a row, and that it then needs a 40 minute rest.

I wonder how many people with KitchenAid problems just assume it can knead and knead and knead all day long.... until it fries. And then it's a piece of junk in the eye of the purchaser.

Mike

That and the nylon gears, and lack of an overload breaker on the motor.

It says Hobart and the price sounds like Hobart.

Freecyclemom

Mike Avery wrote: ...

...

Does that mean, that all K45SS do incorporate the technology of Hobart era KAs? I bought mine (K45SS 250W 220V for Europe) a month ago as a special edition called "Classic". The Motor does sound very sturdy to me - a lot different from the "Ultra Power" my friends have at home, but I did not yet open it to search for any nylon parts.

Or is it just the normal modern machine with all it`s weaknesses?

Joschi

knead and knead all day long.... until it fries. And then it's a piece of junk in the eye of the purchaser.

The nylon gear has been a part of the K45 series since, at least, the late 1970's when I bought my mixer. It is, whether you like it or not, a reasonable design feature. It allows repair by replacing an inexpensive nylon gear, rather than requiring the mixer to be striped down, degreased, and relubed to remove the metal fragments when a metal gear fails.

There is ALWAYS a weakest spot in any design. With the nylon gear, it's easily repairable. With all metal gears, there is no telling which gear would fail.

I've used my mixer heavilly since I bought it in the late 70's. The nylon gear hasn't failed. Despite heavy and frequent use.

If modern KA's are failing too often, something I can't judge, I don't think its due to the nylon gear.

Mike

Hard to say. The nylon part is, except to some people who seem to enjoy whinging, a non-issue. It will fail when the machine is abused, and since the failure point is known, the cost of repairs is minimized.

ANY machine can and will fail when abused long enough and hard enough. My 70's vintage KA has the nylon gear. Neither the mixer nor the gear have failed yet.

As a side note, the issues with KA's failing do not have to do with the wattage of the motor. When we were running a bakery we had an ancient Hobart which was only a 300 or 400 watt mixer. It mixed 30 quarts of dough with aplomb. All day long, batch after batch.

The issue is, at risk of repeating myself, that Hobart mixers have transmissions and single speed motors. Thus, the motor is always running at its optimum speed. Variable speed motors, such as are used in most consumer products, have an inherent problem. Kneading bread takes lots of torque and power. But it has to be delivered at a low speed, since dough should be kneaded slowly. And that is where electrical motors are least able to deliver torque and power. Which causes motors to overheat and fail.

Mike

It's a very smart design feature that allows them to make a cheap machine that fails in a predictable way.

What i would prefer is an actual circuit breaker that trips when the motor is drawing too much power and is thus straining too hard. Given an appropriate circuit breaker, the metal gear would never have the opportunity to strip out.

I think Whirlpool wouldn't consider that a feature, because people would call their mixers 'weak' for refusing to turn when overloaded. Also, the motors would last longer because it would be a real hassle to run them overloaded, and that means fewer sales.

So they'd have to use a stronger motor, which would cost more money, which doesn't make sense because most of the people who buy their mixers treat it essentially like a fashion accessory, occasionally using it for a single loaf of bread or a batch of cookies as a function of domestic bliss, or occasionally to attempt a recipe they saw on tv.

I have a similar complaint about consumer grade ice cream mixers - why does every single one of them tell you it's done mixing by stalling and overheating? Needs a breaker that turns off the motor at the appropriate level of resistance from the work load.

I have to admit that the only one I've personally seen fail in recent years, probably didn't break the gear. It was a 2 year old KA "Professional" that, I'm told, when mixing a double batch of cookies, just plain stopped.

Doesn't so much as hum when switched on now. Can't find anything physically wrong with it. It just doesn't turn on.

So they bought a Bosch Universal instead. Which i found very odd considering they'd just gone on the atkins diet.

They used it to make some atkins-friendly muffins. At least the recipe says they're muffins. It turns out that when you mix "high protein" flour on high for 5 minutes you get a substance not unlike rubber.

I don't see why we argue about this. A lot of people like the KA just fine and they can keep using them. If people ask my opinion I'll tell 'em what i think of them. For most people they're probably just fine.

If you bake heavily, like your life depends on it, it might let you down, or you may have preconceptions that may turn out to be disastrous.

This is the way i was brought up - 5th of 8 kids, Bosch Universal cranking out between 7 and 11 loaves of whole wheat bread per week, up to six loaves per batch. My eldest sister still uses the Bosch we bought in about 1978, mom bought a new one in '89 iirc. Every member of the family without exception learned how to cook and bake at a very young age, and Dad taught all of us how to make bread as soon as we were strong enough to shape the loaves.

I could make spaghetti when i was 3, I could make it *well when i was 4. Cookies, cakes, biscuits, etc, on my own by about 7. Bread at 10, iirc. I'm not talking about hanging around Mom and fetching ingredients, I'm talking about being the only person in the kitchen and occasionally having to ask someone a question. Remarkably, nobody was badly injured. Cut my finger once dicing some carrots, that's about it.

People worry about kids in the kitchen but honestly the only hard part is proper knife handling. Aside from that the rules are "don't touch things that are hot" and "don't stick tools in the mixer when it's running"

As for me, Whirlpool is on my list of vendors of last resort. Something about loathing every appliance I've ever used with their mark on it. The bane of my existence as a cook and baker is the Whirlpool range in this apartment. I'll never buy anything from the washing machine company if i can avoid it, and that's just the way it is.

So i have a clear and stated bias against the KA, but i also have rational objections to their design.

You know what kills me? Every cook on FoodTV except Jacques Torres uses a KA. Jacques has his Hobart N-50 prominently displayed, but what does he use it for?! Nothing but meringue and ganache! And it's not even proper meringue!

There used to be another pastry chef on another show, and she had an N-50 as well, and also used it only for the light and fluffy . . . .

i think of them. For most people they're probably just fine.

The big issue for me is that I think people don't like KA's for the wrong reasons. "The nylon gear!" is used as a reason to hate KA's and Whirlpool. But, the gear predates Whirlpool's aquisition of KA from Hobart.

Since I don't have a Whirlpool era KA, I don't know how much the product has gone downhill. Or if it has at all. Every manufacturer makes its share of lemons, and the KA that started leaking oi is clearly a quality control issues. Still, I am not sure how much of the KA reliability issue is due to people who don't read the manual, overuse the machines, and then complain that the product is inferior.

Mike

I mix my bread (up to 6-8 loaves at a time) in my Universal Bread Pail. It never stalls, never breaks, works like a champ, and you don't even have to plug it in. They ususally cost only about $20 on Ebay to boot (make sure you get the clamp!). Sometimes old technology has its place.

If you're feeling lazy you can chuck a dough hook into your drill press (you have one, right?) and do some serious kneading. For the price of a low-end KitchenAid you can get an industrial-stength motor built to crank that kind of load all day long. Plus it has a vast number of other uses.

I have an electric mixer but it goes virtually unused. A spoon, a wire whisk, or the bread pail are almost always faster, easier and more convenient as well as providing better feedback about what's going on in the bowl.

Roger

Huh! Now, that's an interesting idea! I'll have to look at mine, but I'm not sure how slow I can get it to run. What's a good RPM for bread kneading, anyway?!?

Dave

Do these have a brand name? I did a google search for "Universal Bread Pail" and came up with nothing.

What about the K5SS model, its a hobart made unit that was given to me by an old lady in our neighborhood. How old is it (I assume 70's era) and does it have nylon gears, and does it use a single speed motor with gears?

I also could use a manual if some kind soul could photocopy and sell me a copy of it.

PS: this thing is mint, not even dirty or scratched at all.

Look on Ebay searching for "Universal bread". There are six of them available this morning. The correct term seems to be "bread maker" rather than bread pail.

See, for example