Um, Cheryl... if this is in fact a known and fairly common thing with children of that age, any competent doctor will SAY SO. But until you have that doctor's statement, there will continue to be difficulty with people who insist that the child *must* have a problem. This is why the screening is so important; it can rule things OUT as well as ruling them in.
We (collectively) can argue about this until the cows come home. There is no substitute for hard data.
Celine
Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU!!!
For everyone who has posted, for everyone who has contacted me off line; thank you.
I have been dealing with many, many issues over the last 2 years, and this topic and this past week have just about been the proverbial 'Straw' for me.
The support, the {{{HUGS}}} , the sharing, the links, and just the outpouring of support for my DS has absolutely humbled me and made me remember that there really are good and wonderful and caring people in this world of jerks we live in.
I have been bouyed up, strengthened, and reenergized by all of you. I needed that more than I could say, and that was not why I posted, nor was it what I expected to get. I have soooooo much more information now than I had 24 hours ago, I have people; educated, experienced, caring people with whom I can contiue this dialog. and day-by-day see what each day brings. I have had more cyber-hugs and caring in 24 hours than I have had real contact.
I don't have words to say other than thank you. Which is so inadequate; and, in it's own unique idiom, a very resounding KLUNK!
katie
It was the opposite for us. =o( My son has so many behavioral problems that come with his disorders that it was driving everyone batty. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how a 3yo child could get into *that much* trouble. I must have tried 100 different tactics with him, of course all failing. I read every stupid book known to man on parenting, child development, disorders, etc. While I was seriously educated on all of those issues, I still couldn't help my son. Kindergarten started the daily phone calls from the school...poor little guy.
I agree. I have known some districts to be helpful, but ours sucked. His diagnoses after they kept him back in the 3rd grade was "he just beats to the tune of his own drummer"...well, no duh! What? Did you think I raised him to be a clone? While I agreed to keeping him back that grade, because no amount of extra tutoring was helping him, I will forever regret the effect that had on his self-esteem.
We are glad we paid what we did also. It was a long road before we found someone who was not deceived by my sons tricks. He is very good at confusing those highly educated doctors...lol. And, after a few years of a shrink for myself, because I was told so often that it must be my fault, we were all finally able to discover the real issues and deal with them properly. He has Tourette's, ADD, OCD, Anxiety & ODD (which is Oppositional Defiant Disorder....which at first sounded odd to me...what kid isn't?? But, I soon learned that its not about *being* defiant, but rather about not being able to
*control* your defiance). He stopped taking any medications at 13. He does not like how they make him feel. I couldn't force him. So, we went back to struggling through the rest of his schooling. We are proud to say that he graduated high school with his class! He has also learned his own unique tactics for masking his disorders. Unless he is very stressed out, a stranger would not know that he has Tourette's. He just recently got a promotion and a raise with his job that he has only been with for one month. He has not had to mention any of his disorders to his supervisors. Freeing himself from those labels is one of his ultimate goals.So, while I questioned for many years whether we would survive the turmoil, my son spent those many years learning how to adapt to society and "fit in".
I know first hand what a long and bumpy road it is, and I applaud every parent who makes it across their childs childhood. =o)
Beki
Cheryl, At what point in life do you abandon the right to rather be safe than sorry?
I am not sure who, in this thread, relayed the message to this Mom that she should assume her child has a "horrid undiagnosed problem". On the other hand, if my child, at any age, presented any abnormal symptoms, whether they be physical or mental, I certainly would not sit back and *wait* to see what happens.
A specialist will be able to help this Mom with her child, whether he has something going on, or whether it is just a phase.
It would be much more of a travisty to ignore it, should it turn out to be an issue that can be helped, than to just assume that its nothing and it will go away on its own.
Seeking medical help does not automatically mean you have something wrong with you.
Beki
Ok, back with my sister's comments (she's the LD specialist): _________________________________
seems to fit the profile...She really needs an Educational Pyschologist to look at this child, NOW. .... probably will cost $1800.00 but will save her and this boy's life!!!! Get there today... _________________________________
Katie, I know you've been getting lots of advice, and only you and your family can make the decision that's right for all of you. My sister's opinion is just that - - her opinion - - you'll do what you think is best, I'm sure. :-}
Lots of hugs and supportive vibes coming your way!
- Susan in VA
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (DreamBeadr) :
]What? Did you think I raised him to be a clone?
that is EXACTLY what most public schools systems do want.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
On the other hand, if my child, at any age, presented any abnormal symptoms, whether they be physical or mental, I certainly would not sit back and *wait* to see what happens.>
that's the point these are NOT ABNORMAL SYMPTOMS
education standards say that it is NOT ABNORMAL for a child to reverse letters until the child has reached THIRD GRADE.
it is NORMAL N O R M A L not ABNORMAL
and continue to focus on it -merely convinces the child that it is abnormal... when it is NOT it's NORMAL NORMAL NORMAL NORMAL:
god - how many times do you all have to hear this a 6.5 year old child reversing letters is NORMAL
Cheryl last semester of lawschool! yipee! DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass
Not in all cases Cheryl.
Beki
Cheryl, when your mother started teaching, children did not learn letters and reading until the first grade. Now they start much earlier. By the time a child is 6.5 and in the first grade, they have homework every night. If that homework is being marked wrong every single day because his letters are backwards, can you see that this might be a problem?
Also, I don't think you understand the depth of the problem. He can read at a
3rd grade level, but his writing is kindergarten or lower. He isn't just reversing a letter here or there, he is writing the word backwards. In other words, sdrawkcab. Get it? There's a cognitive lapse here. Now, I never heard of any adults who do this, so it most certainly will be outgrown, but because of self-esteem and because of his attitudes about school, it needs to be dealt with. He just needs a little extra help here. That's all we're saying.Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan)
Which doesn't affect *my* point: that it doesn't matter what the parents understand, until they have a MEDICAL OPINION that this is not abnormal -- something which, if matters are as you say, should not be hard to obtain -- they will continue to have problems with people who won't listen to mere parents. The screening *needs* to be done, just to shut these people up!
Celine
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@mindCHEMISEspring.com (Lee S. Billings) :
]until they have a MEDICAL OPINION that this is not abnormal -- ]something which, if matters are as you say, should not be hard to obtain -- ]they will continue to have problems with people who won't listen to mere ]parents. The screening *needs* to be done, just to shut these people up!
probably unfortunately true!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
You are in law school and I am a 25 year special educator. I will not even venture an opinion on her child's problem being normal or not you should not either. This is a beading newsgroup. Let someone who can accurately assess the family history, the child's health and the current educational setting deal with this. It is not going to hurt the child to have a little testing and some additional attention. It will also calm a very worried parent, and I know what that is like too.
Greg
Peace, Please!
I didn't want to start an arguement, nor did I want to diagnose my son on a beading group. I simply wanted to know if others had experienced similar situations, and their observations. :) I am a mother who is sad and scared and angry and wants to help her son feel better in the most expedient way possible.
I have taken every posting very seriously, and I have been sorting through the many suggestions, other websites, and options that have been issued up by all of the wonderful folks here.
A bit more history.... Michael (DS) was in both a 3 year old and a 4 year old preschool class. (We felt it was an important socialization experience for him as his is an only child, and will remain so for medical and health reasons) Michael has ALWAYS tested 2-3 years AHEAD on language and resoning( math, logic, etc.) and has tested 1-3 years BEHIND on the physical aspect of writing. (even though manual deterity and fine motor control have ben way ahead of the curve)
To watch him work on a story, for instance, the physical act of writing is painful to watch. He has trouble forming the letters, and will start in the most awkward places in a letter, despite hours of tracing, and writing in sand and other activities designed to learn the steps to writing the alphabet. Even with a letter/number chart taped to his table, he has difficulty forming his letters, and even when able to look at a refernece, will still form backwards. His entire body is gripped in the tension of writing the words tha come so easily to his mind. He can draw elaborately detailed pictures that can tell the story he is unable to write. Conversely, if he is allowed to work at a computer or typewriter, he can produce work that has proper spacing, excellent punctuation for a 6yo, and spelling that is definitely on track, and the misspelled words are easily comprehended (substituting a k for a c, or an f for a gh in words he is sounding out as he is writing).
I have been bringing up the issue of writing since early on in his pre-school days. I volunteered in the classroom, and was able to see him struggling at an early age. I've been told to wait by the teachers for almost 4 years.
I have been waiting and watching, and working with him at home. That is no longer enough.
Maybe it is something he will outgrow. Maybe it isn't. I would like to rule out actual problems, and then focus on the best way to help him, whatever the diagnosis. (problem or time)
I do not see him as having a horrid defect, I am not trying to classify him as normal or abnormal. I am trying to help a child who is frustrated beyond belief with himself. He is extremely aware that he cannot "get" writing, and God knows he tries. He is frustrated with himself, and he is beginning to doubt in himself, because this is a pervasive problem that carries throughout the majority of his school day, and drags him down in every subject. He is doubly frustrated because he KNOWS the answers, and he KNOWS that that is what he WROTE (in his mind). I want to find a way to stop his frustration and anger. I do NOT want to sit with my precious little boy on my lap and hear him EVER AGAIN say to me he thinks he is stupid and wishes he was never born. NO 6 yr old should EVER feel that way. I have spend every day of his life pointing out all of the things he does well, praising his efforts and telling him how proud I am of him and how much I love him. That will not matter until he can believe in himself again. And I think that is a pretty SHITTY place for a 6 yr old to be, and I am willing to move heaven and earth to find a SOLUTION.
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 1:40:46 -0400, katiewise wrote (in message ):
Just a quick note - My DD tested a lot like your son, and also has problems writing. In her case, gripping a pen causes her physical pain, due to some birth injuries. (She never colored, either) I started teaching her to type at about age four, and it's made all the difference in the world. She now writes long stories and reports, when before, it was a struggle to get her to write anything more than her name.
And BTW, the spelling comes in time. I haven't met a kid yet who is a voracious reader that doesn't end up as a great speller in the long run.
Still, having the testing to diagnosse or rule out any problems is probably your best solution. If you need help getting through the red tape, email me privately. (Just ask anyone here -- I am really good at cutting through red tape. They don't call me a "barracuda mom" for nothing.)
I wish you all the support in the world. Right now you're going through the worst part: the not knowing. Once you know, one way or another, you can take action (or not) and your mind will be at ease. I know, I've been there.
Kathy N-V
(((((((((katie))))))))))) Aleesha has been having the same issues. She's so smart, and just has problems with writing. Her reading is excellent, and she's learning to type, it's just the writing of words. Numbers are no big deal...it's just words. A couple months ago we went to have her screened, and it turns out she does have a mild form of dyslexia, but it's easily worked with. It's still a struggle, but at least now we have the knowledge and the tools to work with it. She improves daily. Good luck, I hope you find something that will help him.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]Still, having the testing to diagnosse or rule out any problems is probably ]your best solution. If you need help getting through the red tape, email me ]privately. (Just ask anyone here -- I am really good at cutting through red ]tape. They don't call me a "barracuda mom" for nothing.)
seconded! Kathy is a wonder at dealing with bureaucracies!
]I wish you all the support in the world. Right now you're going through the ]worst part: the not knowing. Once you know, one way or another, you can ]take action (or not) and your mind will be at ease. I know, I've been there.
seconded!!!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
If that homework is being marked wrong every single day because his letters are backwards, can you see that this might be a problem?
Any first grade teacher that marks work WRONG for this reason should be FIRED..
my mother may have started a long time ago - but she taught up until three years ago - she KNOWS WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE .s he taught second graders and she NEVER marked their work WRONG. you may gently "correct" but you don't mark it wrong!
this said -- the "additional" information Katie provided today - is much more detailed than her original post on reversal of letters.
after reading it -- I'd say the kid is just too emotionally wrapped up in the damn problem -- which is exactly what mom said you have to avoid -- the kid "freezes up" and freaks out - because he's afraid of doing it wrong- and now HATES SCHOOL duh - wasn't that sweet of his teachers and school to do to him?
This is why the downward PUSH of curriculum is SOOOO STUPID - we are expecting kids to do things that their BRAINS ARE NOT READY FOR...and then we wonder why grade school kids have ULCERS and NEED MENTAL HEALTH WORKERS?
duh
Cheryl last semester of lawschool! yipee! DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass
He isn't just reversing a letter here or there, he is writing the word backwards. In other words, sdrawkcab.>
yes -- this is a form of reversal
it is called MIRROR WRITING and also NOT UNCOMMON.
I did it - as a child -- and GREW OUT OF IT... it is a BRAIN MATURITY THING
Cheryl last semester of lawschool! yipee! DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass
Not to mention ritalin. And now I read that they want to do away with naps for kindergarten, even though the 5Yos are in school for a full day. These poor babies, I really feel for them.
Anyway, it sounds like Katie has a good grip on the problem will do the right thing for her son. Katie, please let us know what you find out!
My own first grader (grand-daughter) is having her tonsils and adenoids out this week. She's been acting out and they are hoping it's because she's been sleep deprived. So we really hope this will make a difference. Please send Emily in Delaware some of those famous RCB vibes! Thanks, guys. Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan)
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.comstars (Cheri2Star) :
]My own first grader (grand-daughter) is having her tonsils and adenoids out ]this week. She's been acting out and they are hoping it's because she's been ]sleep deprived. So we really hope this will make a difference. Please send ]Emily in Delaware some of those famous RCB vibes! Thanks, guys.
prayers incoming. Jamie had to have that done at 16. what a difference!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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